Make Falls and Obers 5 man squads

That's mostly just that Motor Howitzer though, even after the nerfs it already got. And then there is this stupid squad formation thing that is still impacting everything negatively.

They nerfed it once and it reduced the one shot radius by about 3% lol, it was effectively a pointless change.

New ability: merge squad.
Allows you to put two squads together.

Merge two Volks, you get ten man Volks squad. Add two more and get twenty man Volks squad. And of course you can upgrade with shrecks four times.

All factions should get this ability, on all units.

Merge two Shermans, get two tank Sherman squad. If one Sherman dies but other survives you can reinforce squad another second Sherman for 50MP.

Begun, the blob wars have.

New ability: merge squad.
Allows you to put two squads together.

Merge two Volks, you get ten man Volks squad. Add two more and get twenty man Volks squad. And of course you can upgrade with shrecks four times.

All factions should get this ability, on all units.

Merge two Shermans, get two tank Sherman squad. If one Sherman dies but other survives you can reinforce squad another second Sherman for 50MP.

Begun, the blob wars have.

Full of fail, this post is. Much to learn, you still have.

New ability: merge squad.
Allows you to put two squads together.

Merge two Volks, you get ten man Volks squad. Add two more and get twenty man Volks squad. And of course you can upgrade with shrecks four times.

All factions should get this ability, on all units.

Merge two Shermans, get two tank Sherman squad. If one Sherman dies but other survives you can reinforce squad another second Sherman for 50MP.

Begun, the blob wars have.

do not know why, it just posted twice, sorry mods.

LOL

hug it out guys

Invisied 3 flame posts or posts that quoted flame posts.

(Sigh...Sometimes, I hate the quote feature)

I've figured out why axis only players think that squad wipes are such a big deal (which they are to some extent but this is because relic will not change squad spacing AI, but it is more complex than that).

These guys generally only lose squads to those kind of insta-kill RNG (or demo charge lol) events because allies small arms fire is generally poor at range. Add in the incoming received bonus that most axis inf get with any increased survivability from vet and also the retreating bonus to received acc and you will see that vet 3 gren squad down to 1 man with 5%hp get away from a full squad of cons shooting at him because they can't hit him even once.

Then on the other hand you have cons who for some reason are easier to hit than your average soldier and trying to run away from enemy infantry that are more accurate to begin with. So that 1 con running away from a full gren squad is more likely to eat dirt and not live to reinforce then get 1 shot by an explosion at vet 3.

People tend to forget that axis inf have that instead of the armour they used to have. Core inf like grens have it and as for Obers with a 0.7 incoming accuracy bonus, 80/0.7=114 hp against small arms fire or the equivalent of 5.71 volks entities in durability against small arms fire and that's at vet 0.) That means as axis the only way you should be losing infantry is to something that basically wipes the squad in 1 hit. Otherwise you can retreat and most likely make it (more so than allied squad).

So yes allied squads are more survivable to explosions but axis infantry have a much easier time retreating and surviving. With incremental acc on HMG now big squads can be detrimental now too.

5-men squads will still get 1-shotted, even soviet 6-men squads get oneshotted, not so often though. Its because entities get clumped everytime

LOL

hug it out guys

+1

Stuff

Late game explosives and tanks rules the battlefield. And the most amount of explosives lay with the Soviet's. It's not just a matter of Allies having bigger squads, it's a matter of insta wipe point and click adventure shit all being concentrated in 1 faction.

And were is this "mythical" axis only player because none exist ITT.

120 is not better than GrW34? 6 men unwipable squad size, 1 man retreat and vet preserved, vet 3 normal mortar range, same damage, larger AoE. Want me to go on?

I'll rather exchange the GrW34 any day for the actual 120. No point on getting a 120mm if you go T2. Remind you that the 120 cost 340mp and the normal mortars 240mp.

80 damage, 25 damage at radius 2, 12.9 seconds per shot, 10 angle 10 max 0.1 distance scatter
80 damage, 28 damage at radius 2, 6.9 seconds per shot, 10 angle 8 max 0.08 distance scatter

Which one would you take?

Late game explosives and tanks rules the battlefield. And the most amount of explosives lay with the Soviet's. It's not just a matter of Allies having bigger squads, it's a matter of insta wipe point and click adventure shit all being concentrated in 1 faction.

And were is this "mythical" axis only player because none exist ITT.

You mean demo charges? Because other than that I wouldn't say they have much more than axis.

Oh and hey if you want to make axis 5 man squads increase allied small arms dps to compensate, otherwise you just want easy engagements.

You mean demo charges? Because other than that I wouldn't say they have much more than axis.

Oh and hey if you want to make axis 5 man squads increase allied small arms dps to compensate, otherwise you just want easy engagements.

If you adjust the received accuracy and DPS of the squads it would be fine. But Soviets have waaaaaay more squad wipe capable units than OKW or Ostheer do mostly because Soviets just have a fuckload of artillery.

-Cheap rocket artillery that saturates a huge area

-cheap assault gun with a barrage

-demo's obviously

-extremely powerful howitzers

-ISU

Again I ask; were are these mythical Axis only players?

If you adjust the received accuracy and DPS of the squads it would be fine. But Soviets have waaaaaay more squad wipe capable units than OKW or Ostheer do mostly because Soviets just have a fuckload of artilleryWhat artillery are we talking about here? Mortars, howi's, off-maps?.

-Cheap rocket artillery that saturates a huge area (Stuka has just as much if not more wipe potential, drops entire payload in much less time than katy's 4x barrage. Only 1st katy barrage should hit, or 2nd if you are too slow)

-cheap assault gun with a barrage Su76 is good but again unless it is the first or 2nd shot that gets you it shouldn't lead to wipe

-demo's obviously this one is cheap I admit but I already said that

-extremely powerful howitzers for wiping inf the dmg of howi are both high enough for insta-kill, both were buffed significantly and can now cause area denial to an area to keep inf away

-ISU ISU is good at wiping yes but so are most heavies such as ktiger wiping any soviet squad in 2 hits 90% of the time, even tiger is very good at AI just like IS2. New improved sturmtiger for okw too.

Again I ask; were are these mythical Axis only players? http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/viewBoard/0/steamid/76561198032099386 There is one, if you don't think axis/allied only players exist then I don't know what to say.

So basically make them more like allied inf? Weren't you all for asymmetrical balance? But hey I have no problem if you want to add 1 extra entity if you nerf the dmg and received acc, it'll make it much easier to keep cons alive.

Reducing their DPS and received accuracy while adding a fifth member would at least be a decent stop-gap solution for the real issue (FUCKING SPACING, WHY), but I'm sure it'd make Ostheer players do puppy dog eyes over how their everything is four men.

Like other people have already said though, the real issue however is spacing, and certainly doing this proposal is hardly the end of it.

So basically make them more like allied inf? Weren't you all for asymmetrical balance? But hey I have no problem if you want to add 1 extra entity if you nerf the dmg and received acc, it'll make it much easier to keep cons alive.

Okay to start;

-The Stuka Zu Fuss has more wipe potential but in a much smaller area, also it cannot deny territory to the enemy as it doesn't "saturate". It's also almost as expensive as 2 Katyusha's so idk what the existence of the Zu Fuss says about how easy it is to wipe allied things other than it takes a 150 fuel unit to do it.

-Again, the SU-76 can barrage an area preventing you from getting at it, destroy houses, ect. It's also free and easy to spam

- The LeFH does much less damage (160) compared to the ML-20 which does 300 and fires only slightly less shells than the ML-20 does. ML-20's can wipe squads far easier than an LeFH can. They also have exactly the same scatter so the ML-20 is guaranteed to hit as much but always do more damage.

- Are you seriously comparing the Tigers to the ISU? Both have 40 range and the KT is literally .8 faster than infantry. I'm not joking it's not hard to just walk away from a KT to keep your shit safe. An ISU has 70 range and can sight for itself. The Sturmtiger has a large aiming time and only has 45 range.

Okay to start;

-The Stuka Zu Fuss has more wipe potential but in a much smaller area, also it cannot deny territory to the enemy as it doesn't "saturate". It's also almost as expensive as 2 Katyusha's so idk what the existence of the Zu Fuss says about how easy it is to wipe allied things other than it takes a 150 fuel unit to do it. We were talking about wipe potential were we not? Why are you talking about other criteria? This thread is about wipe capability, you pay for what you get, also katy now requires at least tier 1, 3 and 4 210+85 so 305 as opposed to 255 it used to cost. Cost less to tier for stuka. And before you say ''but stuka leaves you open to armour'' if you go t1 t3 t4 you will have no at at all until vehicle after initial katy so realistically you will most likely go t2 for 315 fuel to first katy vs. 183 for 1st stuka. However you can have shreks, soviets can have ptrs. Plus with T2 AT guns you will want snare so that is another 125MP and 25 fuel. Also you have at gun without needing to make tech choice.

-Again, the SU-76 can barrage an area preventing you from getting at it, destroy houses, ect. It's also free and easy to spam Plenty of things can barrage an area for cheaper, ost mortar perhaps?

- The LeFH does much less damage (160) compared to the ML-20 which does 300 and fires only slightly less shells than the ML-20 does. ML-20's can wipe squads far easier than an LeFH can. They also have exactly the same scatter so the ML-20 is guaranteed to hit as much but always do more damage. Inf entity hp is 80 so most times they will be insta-gibbed anyway unless at far aoe distance 3.3 for lefh vs. 5 for ml20. But hey axis have better handheld AT so soviets can have better heavy arty right? That's asymmetrical balance!

- Are you seriously comparing the Tigers to the ISU? Both have 40 range and the KT is literally .8 faster than infantry. I'm not joking it's not hard to just walk away from a KT to keep your shit safe. An ISU has 70 range and can sight for itself. The Sturmtiger has a large aiming time and only has 45 range. I compared the heavies yes, and when you are trying to take a vp against a ktiger you can't just walk away. ISU is dangerous but it also misses a heck of a lot

Alex, both faction groups have a lot of insta-gib capable explosions (rifle-nades for example, hell any nade be it shocks or volks). For you not to be able to acknowledge this just hurts your ability to debate the issue as it makes you seem biased.

Before you should be calling for any balance changes you should be asking for squad AI spacing changes.