Medium callins are fixed, but...

T34/85 and Easy 8 are fixed now, but why other callins arent attached to teching? _All_ call-in vehicles (except USA Jeep) should be attached to teching. Feels weird, that you still can get your Tiger and IS2 without teching, even they arrive now a bit later.

They arrive at like 15 cp.

Let heavy call ins be heavy call ins.

T34/85 and Easy 8 are fixed now, but why other callins arent attached to teching? _All_ call-in vehicles (except USA Jeep) should be attached to teching. Feels weird, that you still can get your Tiger and IS2 without teching, even they arrive now a bit later.

Heavy call-ins have a limit of 1, have high CP cost, and haven't really been nerfed through fuel cost. That's why. Otherwise you can really headshot a player just by destroying his T4 and negate his ability to call in units. Unlikely sure, but people will complain more so than if it wasn't the case.

Also probably because the need to build T4 just to get Tiger is probably already covered by the aforementioned limits.

Why do you think US Jeep (WC51) should be exempt while all other light vehicles should not?

I still dont see how the medium call ins are fixed. You can rush to the respective tiers and get these tanks even more rapidly than you would with a cp restricted call in. They should add a cp requirement for the medium call ins, even with the tie to tech.

I still dont see how the medium call ins are fixed. You can rush to the respective tiers and get these tanks even more rapidly than you would with a cp restricted call in. They should add a cp requirement for the medium call ins, even with the tie to tech.

That need to get tech is the exact point.
Have you even played with these changes yet?

That need to get tech is the exact point.
Have you even played with these changes yet?

T34/85's are now 130 fuel, so you can rush them without much consequence in the latest build of the patch and making them in large numbers isn't really much of a challenge. It's a big kick in the butt for OKW because their medium tank is 5 fuel more expensive on top of the fuel penalty.

Ostheer can handle because of how cheap and easy to acquire the StuG III is on top of the fact they have an actual AT gun.

T34/85 and Easy 8 are fixed now, but why other callins arent attached to teching? _All_ call-in vehicles (except USA Jeep) should be attached to teching. Feels weird, that you still can get your Tiger and IS2 without teching, even they arrive now a bit later.

Ye, of course, i said it already too

But you will see, Stug e will kill everything coz t-70 and Su-76 are useless.

And tiger ace will be more cheat.

T-85s will cost too much .... ISU is bad vs Tiger in 1v1 .... IS-2 without guards early game

wrong button

Only thing i wouldn't mind being changed about heavies now is making their cool down timers start when the last one gets destroyed. When you put loads of effort into destroying one and it gets instantly replaced it's pretty annoying.

Yea, go and rush 350 fuel, I dare you.
Do you also rush elephants alex?

Yea, go and rush 350 fuel, I dare you.
Do you also rush elephants alex?

80+90+130 =/= 350. Soviets first tech building is free. And Elefants have a set CP requirement; T34/85's do not.

I mean do you really want to play this game? (I know you don't), because the OKW PIV is 322 for your first one and 524 if you want two. For your second T34/85 it's only 430 fuel.

Taking Soviets as example cause thats the only faction I've tested it out enough on.

I made a similar thread in alphaforums regarding the issue. T3 for Soviets is sort of a must-do thing now, and transitioning from T3 to T-34-85 cost you 230 (220 with recent adjustment) fuel. If its a close game and possibly gone for a while, I often found myself just scrapping the idea of 34-85s and going for the IS-2 instead since it was the same price.

I do think its fine that theres an option to not build T4 and go for light vehicles straight into heavy call ins, but in the 1v1s I had I never found it a smart thing to go for T-34-85s instead.

Edit: Oops, this is where I went full OT

When the changes were still in Alpha (34-85s were 140 fuel like in first version of the preview, I'll give you that) rushing for 34-85s was a horrific idea atleast. Even with 130 fuel Ostheer can reliably get a P IV before the 34-85 is out even if its rushed.

Besides, with the new T3 being so delicious for Soviets I don't see any logical reason to push straight for the T-34-85s.

Taking Soviets as example cause thats the only faction I've tested it out enough on.

I made a similar thread in alphaforums regarding the issue. T3 for Soviets is sort of a must-do thing now, and transitioning from T3 to T-34-85 cost you 230 (220 with recent adjustment) fuel. If its a close game and possibly gone for a while, I often found myself just scrapping the idea of 34-85s and going for the IS-2 instead since it was the same price

When the changes were still in Alpha (34-85s were 140 fuel like in first version of the preview, I'll give you that) rushing for 34-85s was a horrific idea atleast. Even with 130 fuel Ostheer can reliably get a P IV before the 34-85 is out even if its rushed.

Besides, with the new T3 being so delicious for Soviets I don't see any logical reason to push straight for the T-34-85s.

Ostheer T3 got delayed and is more equivalent to Soviet T4 than it is T3. Rushing might not always be the best idea, but once the game escalates to the late game getting T34/85's out in numbers will very much not be an issue. To wit; if you could spam T34/85's before you can now as they are built at the reduced call in price they had in Guard Motor.

We will need to see how it works out in practice, but I feel like it will be problematic for OKW to be forced to face off against so much massed medium armor when OKW is very specifically designed to be quite weak against massed enemy tanks.

When I played in the Alpha OKW relied very heavily on keeping your 1 (getting more than 1 being a luxury) PIV alive as long as physically possible while holding out for your next piece of armor that was normally either a Panther or a JPIV to help handle enemy armor. The KT is fairly redundant now that OKW's late game AI hole has been filled.

That need to get tech is the exact point.
Have you even played with these changes yet?

Yes, i did, and i still believe that the medium call in commanders will dominate the meta.

80+90+130 =/= 350. Soviets first tech building is free. And Elefants have a set CP requirement; T34/85's do not.

I mean do you really want to play this game? (I know you don't), because the OKW PIV is 322 for your first one and 524 if you want two. For your second T34/85 it's only 430 fuel.

j

You forgot Soviets require AT nades at the least so 80+90+25+130= 325 so they come out at the same time.
Also you will have tier 4 which gives you free light/medium at bubble to utilise and best inf at on core infantry. Soviet rely a lot more on vehicles to get decent AT so I don't see the problem with them getting the 2nd t34-85 faster as by that point OKW will be well on the way to panther while utilising their ubiquitous AT sources.
It's not as straight forward as you seem to think.

j

You forgot Soviets require AT nades at the least so 80+90+25+130= 325 so they come out at the same time.
Also you will have tier 4 which gives you free light/medium at bubble to utilise and best inf at on core infantry. Soviet rely a lot more on vehicles to get decent AT so I don't see the problem with them getting the 2nd t34-85 faster as by that point OKW will be well on the way to panther while utilising their ubiquitous AT sources.
It's not as straight forward as you seem to think.

Every popular Soviet doctrine comes with elite call in infantry and Obers are very much not cost efficient compared to OKW's other infantry units (especially when enemy armor hits the field in numbers). Things are deffo better for OKW than before, but the issue of OKW being easy to overwhelm with massed enemy armor in 2's will remain a problem.

Soviet T4 gives you access to arguably the most common and efficient fuel based indirect fire unit in the entire game, a TD, and on top of that now with the right commander the best medium tank in the game.

Yes, i did, and i still believe that the medium call in commanders will dominate the meta.

T34/85 and Easy 8 are fixed now, but why other callins arent attached to teching? _All_ call-in vehicles (except USA Jeep) should be attached to teching. Feels weird, that you still can get your Tiger and IS2 without teching, even they arrive now a bit later.

Yeah but if you dont tech and rely on a heavy call-in (of which you can only get 1 at a time) youre going to suffer in the midgame if youre vs a good player.



Also does anyone know if the med tank call-in changes include the soviet Sherman? in the lend lease commander? I dont remember seeing it in the patch notes.

Only thing i wouldn't mind being changed about heavies now is making their cool down timers start when the last one gets destroyed. When you put loads of effort into destroying one and it gets instantly replaced it's pretty annoying.

sounds like an authentic depiction of the russian army

Yes, i did, and i still believe that the medium call in commanders will dominate the meta.

The reason they were so strong before is because you could use the fuel saved from not teching to spam the shit out of them, and if your opponent tech'd for his tanks he would be extremely far behind economically. I guess you could technically rush them in the new patch, but to be honest rushing an M5, T70, or a stuart would probably have a bigger impact. They come much, much earlier and leave much less room for error, considering there will be a lot less AT on the field to deal with them than by the time the medium call ins arrive.