MG firing arc redesign (IDEA)

I have come up this morning with a simple idea which probably has been recommended a few times but I couldn't bother myself with the search option. The idea is that the firing arc of the MGs, especially the huge one from the 42's be redesigned. You may ask yourself how? Well simple. The arc can be divided into 3 sections: the middle, outer, and the very edges. In the middle (green colour on the arc while setting it up with the mouse) the firing and suppressing effects would be the most strongest. The enemy infantry would be suppressed in a second like it is now especially with the 42, and the killing power would be at its best. Letting not one soldier come near the crew. The outer area (or the yellow area) would be weaker and 2-3 squads (especially arranged in two groups, rushing at the crew at the same time) could damage or even kill the crew or come close and throw a nade. And you can guess what the edge area or the border (red) would be like. The borders would have the lowest suppressing power, one squad could get near it but it would be prone to suppressing if it stood too long on the edges.

I'm sure that many of you have come across situations when you made the perfect flanking plan only to get, especially as allied players, suppressed on the very edges of the arc, ending in a failed flanking manouver, just because one soldier was in the arc, while the others were away from it, and cause of the game mechanincs, they too got suppressed.

This makes no sense. The MG can aim directly at anything within its arc so the entire arc would be green in your example. MG arcs work perfectly fine.

this would effectively remove mg's from the game

This makes no sense. The MG can aim directly at anything within its arc so the entire arc would be green in your example. MG arcs work perfectly fine.

Yeah but take away the aim directly factor. The positioning of the MGs would be far more important. You didn't get my point. I hope the following picture will help you understand my thought.

Yeah but take away the aim directly factor. The positioning of the MGs would be far more important. You didn't get my point. I hope the following picture will help you understand my thought.

This is effectively identical to just making an MG's arc narrower, and makes little sense from either the gameplay or realism perspective.

The problem you seem to be trying to solve here is: "Squads get suppressed when only one man is shot by the MG."

Except that isn't a problem, it's a part of the game. The solution is to not let even one man get caught by the MG, not to randomly nerf their firing arcs.

HMG42 can fire out of it's arc, kinda strange and annoying for the one flanking.

This is effectively identical to just making an MG's arc narrower, and makes little sense from either the gameplay or realism perspective.

The problem you seem to be trying to solve here is: "Squads get suppressed when only one man is shot by the MG."

Except that isn't a problem, it's a part of the game. The solution is to not let even one man get caught by the MG, not to randomly nerf their firing arcs.

Gameplay wise and realism wise it is a problem and for me a part of the game which gives the user a negative playing experience which is the main thing that these patches are trying to address. Many times while flanking a garrisoned MG by going from side to side while shooting, squad gets suppressed just because it got caught by like 3-4 bullets. The current suppressing system could be more nitpicked and done a lot better than just: If infantry squad in MG arc=squad suppressed...

There are already mechanics in place for this. Near-suppression modifier means adjacent units to the one being fired on get suppressed easier the higher the mod number. And traverse speed affects the time it takes the gunner to aim.

The change you propose doesn't do anything. If a unit is in the firing arc, it can be aimed at. Being at the edge of the arc doesn't mean the gunner is shooting around a corner or something.

I don't think people are giving this a fair shakedown. If a squad saw the gun was almost at it's limit when it started firing in real life, would they drop to the ground where they are or try to get past it?

OP is proposing that a squad maneuvering around the flanks would be more bold whereas a squad staring down the tripod's centerline would hold.

This is neither clear cut nor unworthy of discussion. An interesting idea really.

I don't think people are giving this a fair shakedown. If a squad saw the gun was almost at it's limit when it started firing in real life, would they drop to the ground where they are or try to get past it?

OP is proposing that a squad maneuvering around the flanks would be more bold whereas a squad staring down the tripod's centerline would hold.

This is neither clear cut nor unworthy of discussion. An interesting idea really.

You said it yourself in a shorter way. I know that many of you have been in situations where your flanks have failed just because a little burst was fired onto your squads by a MG garrisoned or on the field. You being the one who is actively and tactically trying to outmanovuer the MG crew, in the garrison or in the field, and in the end being beaten by a static crew, just because a burst of no more than two seconds got fired on your squads on the very edges of the arc. It is just negative playing experience.

doesnt make sense.. hmg should do the same effect where it points.. it s simple. The disadvantage of the outer sides is the time needed (delay) to point the hmg towards enemy. No more is needed..

doesnt make sense.. hmg should do the same effect where it points.. it s simple. The disadvantage of the outer sides is the time needed (delay) to point the hmg towards enemy. No more is needed..

Delay of what? One second max.

Delay of what? One second max.

it is sometimes enough to get out of the range when u r in the outer side

im too lazy to flank i wanna keep blobbing thread.

im too lazy to flank i wanna keep blobbing thread.

By what logic do you conclude that the core of the idea is to support blobs?

Imagine Soviet Maxim´s arc with this mechanic, although it might do 40dmg to units directly facing the MG!

Sry I dont like the idea either.

A better approach in my opinion would be to move the suppression effect from squad base to entity base.

That way even if the MG supresses one member of a squad only that guy is pinned to the ground.

This would resolve issues like one guy sticking around on the wrong side of green cover but would still prevent blobs.

Imagine Soviet Maxim´s arc with this mechanic, although it might do 40dmg to units directly facing the MG!

The division of the areas would be different for every MG. The Maxim's one the "green" area would cover the most of the arc, if not entire arc.

Sry I dont like the idea either.

A better approach in my opinion would be to move the suppression effect from squad base to entity base.

That way even if the MG supresses one member of a squad only that guy is pinned to the ground.

This would resolve issues like one guy sticking around on the wrong side of green cover but would still prevent blobs.

Well the main reason I came up with this idea is because of the way the game works now ie. squad base suppression.

I dunno about this. IMO it shouldn't be so much effectiveness dependent on firing arc, but rather more about speed of traversal.

Picture this: with German MGs having wider arcs their advantage over other HMGs is naturally more coverage per individual MG squad, but their drawback is if they are pointing to the attacking a unit at their extreme left and must swing to attack a unit at the far right, it would take much longer than if it was a Maxim/ Dshk by virtue of having a wider arc.
This naturally means that, if you use a single MG to cover a wide area of approach, it is easier to flank by moving units through both extreme ends and not have the MG zip back and forth blazing everyone down. This would also encourage more coverage of a single MG squad
That might be tantamount to just redeploying the MG though, and we also need to consider bunker MGs, which cannot be controlled.

I prefer if the game uses squad-based suppression rather than individual, it would just make more pathfinding issues.

Sry I dont like the idea either.

A better approach in my opinion would be to move the suppression effect from squad base to entity base.

That way even if the MG supresses one member of a squad only that guy is pinned to the ground.

This would resolve issues like one guy sticking around on the wrong side of green cover but would still prevent blobs.

It'd probably get very finicky with pathfinding, retreating and abilities.

Uh, that is, even more than they are already.

Picture this: with German MGs having wider arcs their advantage over other HMGs is naturally more coverage per individual MG squad, but their drawback is if they are pointing to the attacking a unit at their extreme left and must swing to attack a unit at the far right, it would take much longer than if it was a Maxim/ Dshk by virtue of having a wider arc.

Eh, there's not much of a drawback at this point now after Maxim traverse nerf (which I did find a perfectly acceptable nerf to Maxim spamming). Maxims traverse a bit faster (I think it's by like 6 degrees horizontally now) in their arc, but that smaller arc means it is physically impossible for them to shoot at enemies on their sides at all at many more potential positions more compared to HMG 42/34s, who like you said instead have a bit of a problem going from one extreme of the arc to another, but at least have the capacity to potentially shoot enemies on their sides much more.