Seeing that Relic changed howitzers, I want to write what annoys me the most about using them. It is the fact that certain commanders have no-brain abilities that easily counter this artillery piece by completely destroying it in 2 clicks. I'm talking about commanders that have both Recon Overflight and Bombing runs in them:
Jaeger Armor doctrine(recon+stuka bomb)
Close Air Support(recon+stuka bomb)
Soviet Combined Arms(recon+IL-2 bomb)
and Americans have recon overflight ability on major+ doctrinal call-in arty combo, but some of their doctrinal call-in artillery strikes already cant be used on base sector and some can(I'm sure artillery from Mechanized doctrine can't but not sure about the others).
What I'd like to see is buff to all Howitzers' HP so arty can only decrew them and not completely destroy, leaving it with just a bit of hp.
Howitzers HP buff
16 Jul 2015, 10:16 AM
#1
Posts: 258
16 Jul 2015, 10:25 AM
#2
Posts: 1653
The Pak43 also should have an HP buff. But lets make this point. If I drop a 50 kg or 100 kg bomb on your head. I know for sure that you and something like 20-30 meters next to me nothing is standing anymore Kappa
16 Jul 2015, 10:30 AM
#3
1 
Posts: 640
So 160 (stuka) + 60/35 (recon overflight) ~ 200 ammunition is not enough to counter 600MP?
Ammunition income between 30-50.. MP income 230... so yeah you need twice the time until you can afford a stuka dive + recon (ofc no mg upgrades).
Wow then the dive bomb counter is useless and you have to drive in there with a tank. wow
So you have to go for CAS every game and click AT strafe (125 ammunition) + recon + stuka dive = 345
little bit too much imo.
The stuka is definitly the best counter against allied howitzers I would leave them as they are right now.
I think the german howitzer is currently no problem which needs a proper counter
Ammunition income between 30-50.. MP income 230... so yeah you need twice the time until you can afford a stuka dive + recon (ofc no mg upgrades).
What I'd like to see is buff to all Howitzers' HP so arty can only decrew them and not completely destroy, leaving it with just a bit of hp.
Wow then the dive bomb counter is useless and you have to drive in there with a tank. wow
So you have to go for CAS every game and click AT strafe (125 ammunition) + recon + stuka dive = 345
little bit too much imo.
The stuka is definitly the best counter against allied howitzers I would leave them as they are right now.
I think the german howitzer is currently no problem which needs a proper counter
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16 Jul 2015, 10:31 AM
#4
Posts: 258
The Pak43 also should have an HP buff. But lets make this point. If I drop a 50 kg or 100 kg bomb on your head. I know for sure that you and something like 20-30 meters next to me nothing is standing anymore Kappa
forgot about pak43, it gets destroyed even faster than howies
but really, other than buffing static at gun and howies HP the only other solution is completely changing all call-in artillery so it cant be called on enemy base.
16 Jul 2015, 10:33 AM
#5
Posts: 105
Add vehicle towing to the game. 
Tho it still would be hard to save them from a stuka dive bomb.
Tho it still would be hard to save them from a stuka dive bomb.
16 Jul 2015, 10:37 AM
#6
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently BannedYup, ml-20 buff was pointless while cas still exists
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
16 Jul 2015, 10:40 AM
#7
Posts: 1653
Yup, ml-20 buff was pointless while cas still exists
Unfortunatly but true BrokeBack
16 Jul 2015, 10:41 AM
#8
Posts: 258
So 160 (stuka) + 60/35 (recon overflight) ~ 200 ammunition is not enough to counter 600MP?
Ammunition income between 30-50.. MP income 230... so yeah you need twice the time until you can afford a stuka dive + recon (ofc no mg upgrades).
Wow then the dive bomb counter is useless and you have to drive in there with a tank. wow
So you have to go for CAS every game and click AT strafe (125 ammunition) + recon + stuka dive = 345
little bit too much imo.
The stuka is definitly the best counter against allied howitzers I would leave them as they are right now.
I think the german howitzer is currently no problem which needs a proper counter
I think you have to do more than just make 2 clicks to counter something that stands in enemy base.
In team games players often choose either CAS or Jaeger Armor and howitzer becomes useless. Waiting for ammo is not a big problem if you know that stuka will 100% destroy it.
16 Jul 2015, 10:41 AM
#9
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
Sure buff their HP....
But then don't allow them to be build in a base sector and nearby the base sector, so there's counterplay by using units to destroy them.
But then don't allow them to be build in a base sector and nearby the base sector, so there's counterplay by using units to destroy them.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
16 Jul 2015, 10:46 AM
#10
Posts: 27
this is a tricky subject but I feel a better solution would be to change how recon planes currently functions. I think they should circle at least once before revealing an area. This would give AA a chance to shoot them down. A recon pass should be similar, maybe reveal sight after a plane has passed and not been shot down or something.
16 Jul 2015, 10:47 AM
#11
1 Posts: 640
Sure buff their HP....
But then don't allow them to be build in a base sector and nearby the base sector, so there's counterplay by using units to destroy them.
yeah would be an option
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16 Jul 2015, 11:11 AM
#12
Posts: 589
I don't think the HP needs to be increased for howie's of either faction. If a bombing strike gets through, it should be rewarded.
What needs to happen, is a chance for every faction to have a chance at counter playing bombing strikes by aircraft. This doesn't mean off map arty strikes should be countered. They are generally very expensive, and are also RNG dependant, unlike most bombing runs, with a long period of time to get units out of their way.
The Stuka dive-bomber needs to have a model to shoot down, so too does the soviet fire bomb.
What's the point of having AA units, if their only role is to counter infantry based squads? AA units are way too ineffective against all aircraft (except the lend lease call in, which is just LOL worthy).
I remember seeing Relic designers saying "a ML20 is a hard counter to the slow moving Elefant", yet the best Elefant doctrine comes with a recon plane and bombing strike, that cannot be countered. Where is the sense in this?
What needs to happen, is a chance for every faction to have a chance at counter playing bombing strikes by aircraft. This doesn't mean off map arty strikes should be countered. They are generally very expensive, and are also RNG dependant, unlike most bombing runs, with a long period of time to get units out of their way.
The Stuka dive-bomber needs to have a model to shoot down, so too does the soviet fire bomb.
What's the point of having AA units, if their only role is to counter infantry based squads? AA units are way too ineffective against all aircraft (except the lend lease call in, which is just LOL worthy).
I remember seeing Relic designers saying "a ML20 is a hard counter to the slow moving Elefant", yet the best Elefant doctrine comes with a recon plane and bombing strike, that cannot be countered. Where is the sense in this?
16 Jul 2015, 11:17 AM
#13
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I don't think the HP needs to be increased for howie's of either faction. If a bombing strike gets through, it should be rewarded.
The problem isn't bombing strike, its the ease of use of said strike for axis.
There are two strong doctrines that allow for 2 skill less clicks to hardcounter it.
What needs to happen, is a chance for every faction to have a chance at counter playing bombing strikes by aircraft. This doesn't mean off map arty strikes should be countered. They are generally very expensive, and are also RNG dependant, unlike most bombing runs.
What's the point of having AA units, if their only role is to counter infantry based squads?
You can't counter stuka dive, because its not a plane.
AA role was explained long time ago, its supposed to counter loitering planes, not single passes and it does just that.
I remember seeing Relic designers saying "a ML20 is a hard counter to the slow moving Elefant", yet the best Elefant doctrine comes with a recon plane and bombing strike, that cannot be countered. Where is the sense in this?
That is just relics briliance at designing vanila doctrines. It shows in almost every single one of them.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
16 Jul 2015, 11:23 AM
#14
Posts: 589
Well thanks for explaining the reality of the game Kati, but it's change we need. I'm aware of the short falls.
I also added a line in the original quoted post about plane models.
Two click counters need to be gone, or they need to have a chance at failure (which is what I'm suggesting). Currently, they are too efficient, and there is a whole doctrine that is basically uncounterable, except for "move your shit", which isn't a counter at all.
I also added a line in the original quoted post about plane models.
Two click counters need to be gone, or they need to have a chance at failure (which is what I'm suggesting). Currently, they are too efficient, and there is a whole doctrine that is basically uncounterable, except for "move your shit", which isn't a counter at all.
16 Jul 2015, 11:33 AM
#15
Posts: 1653
Shit to move? Kappa
16 Jul 2015, 12:17 PM
#16
Posts: 1124
It's like this, just wait till your enemy chooses a commander, then if acceptable pick one with artillery, people don't go CAS or elephant every game. (Unless your 4v4) meanwhile I'm glad they are the way they are now otherwise they will be in every single game, and a bunch of them. It would just be a huge artillery fest. Oh can't have it in base sectors? Let me just put it right outside my base because it makes so much of a difference right? Wrong.
16 Jul 2015, 12:37 PM
#17
3 
Posts: 587
Does anybody remember how people countered artillery in COH 1?, rush a scouting unit near it and drop a firestorm/V1/200m rocket barrage on it, the same way Allies called in artillery strikes on flak 88's, but they didint always die to it 
16 Jul 2015, 12:56 PM
#18
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
It's like this, just wait till your enemy chooses a commander, then if acceptable pick one with artillery, people don't go CAS or elephant every game. (Unless your 4v4) meanwhile I'm glad they are the way they are now otherwise they will be in every single game, and a bunch of them. It would just be a huge artillery fest. Oh can't have it in base sectors? Let me just put it right outside my base because it makes so much of a difference right? Wrong.
Meanwhile there are no problems with artillery in 4v4 because nobody builds it in base sector because of (limited range + large map).
16 Jul 2015, 13:08 PM
#19
Posts: 107
Yup, ml-20 buff was pointless while cas still exists
that-people were going crazy regarding the alpha changes and yet they left this untouched.
If this 2 click insta wipe needed 2 different commanders aka 2 enemy players working together to do this it would have been fine, for me at least. as it is now it is a reminder that relic doesnt have a clue when it comes to balancing. it is only because of the community that every now and then we see them doing something right.
16 Jul 2015, 13:15 PM
#20
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
This might be less of an issue if the meta changes following the July 21st patch and you don't see CAS as often as a result. Though TBH I don't think that the Strafing delays and slight Muni conversion nerf will really discourage CAS use all that much unless another commander really starts to outshine it.
It might be cool if Howies came with a Camo netting upgrade like Sov. AT Guns. At least it would force players to pay attention to where the thing is built while its firing before they bomb it.
It might be cool if Howies came with a Camo netting upgrade like Sov. AT Guns. At least it would force players to pay attention to where the thing is built while its firing before they bomb it.
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