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russian armor

New Incoming Teching Costs.

14 Jul 2015, 21:26 PM
#21
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Reduce Ostheer Panther cost by 25 fuel, make the Pwerfer actually fire 16 rockets like it used to, and make the Sturmpanzer more maneuverable and T4 will be fine.
14 Jul 2015, 22:03 PM
#22
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

The whole point of switching BP and structure cost is to give OH the choice to rush either of them.
People have already played in the past T1+T2 into T4, specially on 2v2+.

If you are going to talk about RUSH builds, you need to account for only what is strictly needed to get them. You skip the 75f cost of T3.

IF you want to theoricraft timings, you might as well start adding initial fuel cost, possibility of sidegrades and for the case of OKW the magical .71-.73% fuel convertion.



is it really viable to skip your pak in trying to rush for your tank? The ost is just going to suffer death by light vehicle if they skip the panzerfaust (t1) or the pak (t2).
14 Jul 2015, 22:29 PM
#23
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2015, 20:36 PMCorsin


If you played the game, id listen to you, until then you're another clueless forum dweller.



HOW does a 130 fuel difference = T3 or T4? Its T3 to survive the midgame. And T4 is yet again out of reach.

The reason Soviet tech is T1 or T2 is because they start off with 50 fuel so they can get either...


Does Wehrmacht T4 cost the same as T3? No its 130 fuel behind. Use your head... jesus...


How hard will it be to explain to you that wehr T4 have much stronger units then soviet or USF T4 and it needs to be more expensive for balance reasons, yet its more accessible with new costs then it was with old ones?

Difference between you and me here is that I have played with the changes for some time(oh look, your first argument goes straight down the shitter!) and you're just talking out of your ass.

Ost T4 is much more accessible then it is with current tech.

Reduce Ostheer Panther cost by 25 fuel.

Also reduce its range to 40, penetration to 80-120 and give it 5 second reload?
5 more fuel will be good enough excuse to keep 320 armor over KV-1 which costs 145.

Lolcake would be proud of your suggestions.
14 Jul 2015, 22:33 PM
#24
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2015, 22:29 PMKatitof


How hard will it be to explain to you that wehr T4 have much stronger units then soviet or USF T4 and it needs to be more expensive for balance reasons, yet its more accessible with new costs then it was with old ones?

Difference between you and me here is that I have played with the changes for some time(oh look, your first argument goes straight down the shitter!) and you're just talking out of your ass.

Ost T4 is much more accessible then it is with current tech.


Why would you ever want to go T4 other than for a Panther? Especially when for that price you could just get 2 PIV's, or a PIV and a StuG III or just a smattering of StuG III's and Ostwinds.

This patch hasn't solved the issue of Ostheer T4 being aggressively mediocre for what you pay for. It would be a fairly easy fix just to give the Pwerfer it's old rockets back and make the Sturmpanzer move like the crew isn't drunk and lower the cost of the Panther a tiny bit.

T3 has literally everything you need in it, T4 has overpriced mediocrity.
14 Jul 2015, 22:35 PM
#25
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



is it really viable to skip your pak in trying to rush for your tank? The ost is just going to suffer death by light vehicle if they skip the panzerfaust (t1) or the pak (t2).


You don't save much by skipping either of those.
14 Jul 2015, 23:03 PM
#26
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Why would you ever want to go T4 other than for a Panther? Especially when for that price you could just get 2 PIV's, or a PIV and a StuG III or just a smattering of StuG III's and Ostwinds.

This patch hasn't solved the issue of Ostheer T4 being aggressively mediocre for what you pay for. It would be a fairly easy fix just to give the Pwerfer it's old rockets back and make the Sturmpanzer move like the crew isn't drunk and lower the cost of the Panther a tiny bit.

T3 has literally everything you need in it, T4 has overpriced mediocrity.


You're paying bigger price for superior units.
You may call it what you want, but you're getting superior armor there that will beat every single other tank 1v1 short of IS-2. That isn't medicority. Brummbar also performs excellent against infantry right now.

Only pwerfer isn't super amazing, but god forbid single soviet stock unit would perform better then its ost counterpart for the same cost, you already have superior sniper, superior generalist infantry, superior AT gun and superior mortars, can't have everything superior, sorry.

There is no problem holding out to T4 with command tank, especially now that it got a tremendous buff.

Lowering panthers cost would equal lowering its stats.
14 Jul 2015, 23:08 PM
#27
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2015, 23:03 PMKatitof



Only pwerfer isn't super amazing, but god forbid single soviet stock unit would perform better then its ost counterpart for the same cost, you already have superior sniper, superior generalist infantry, superior AT gun and superior mortars, can't have everything superior, sorry.


thats not good enough :guyokay:
14 Jul 2015, 23:54 PM
#29
avatar of Intelligence209

Posts: 1124

Fix the damn strumpanzer pathing.
15 Jul 2015, 00:02 AM
#30
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2015, 23:03 PMKatitof


You're paying bigger price for superior units.
You may call it what you want, but you're getting superior armor there that will beat every single other tank 1v1 short of IS-2. That isn't medicority. Brummbar also performs excellent against infantry right now.

Only pwerfer isn't super amazing, but god forbid single soviet stock unit would perform better then its ost counterpart for the same cost, you already have superior sniper, superior generalist infantry, superior AT gun and superior mortars, can't have everything superior, sorry.

There is no problem holding out to T4 with command tank, especially now that it got a tremendous buff.

Lowering panthers cost would equal lowering its stats.


Except you will be severely outnumbered because you paid 2 or 3 times more for your one than than your enemy did for his. Again, you have not brought up a single reason to go for T4 instead of T3 when Ostwind as AI vastly is more efficient than a Sturmpanzer AND gives AA. And the Pwerfer is a literal joke of a unit.

T3 has everything you need for the entire game, what is the point of T4?
15 Jul 2015, 00:13 AM
#31
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

Why need T4? T3 and the right commander is enough to deal with many things. T4 is just the extra stuff for a long game/big team game.
15 Jul 2015, 00:13 AM
#32
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

Ostwind and Pzwerfer should trade spots
15 Jul 2015, 00:31 AM
#33
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

Ostwind and Pzwerfer should trade spots

ost need aaa more than they need arty.
15 Jul 2015, 00:36 AM
#34
avatar of Intelligence209

Posts: 1124

@Alex, the strumpanzer has some of the best AI abilities in the game...
15 Jul 2015, 00:37 AM
#35
avatar of Intelligence209

Posts: 1124

Ostwind and Pzwerfer should trade spots


That's a good idea
15 Jul 2015, 00:45 AM
#36
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1


ost need aaa more than they need arty.

They've got more options than anyone else even without Ostwind! They just need to shell out munitions for it. 222 upgrade can shoot down planes and pintle MGs from like every tank can as well. Soviets need IS-2/ISU DShK or M5 AA, USF have AAHT or Sherman pintles, OKW have Flak HT or T3 (can also get pintles from Panther or PIV [KT doesn't really count if you really want AA...], but resource penalty make this have a bit more cost opportunity than Ostheer's options for it).
15 Jul 2015, 00:49 AM
#37
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

@Alex, the strumpanzer has some of the best AI abilities in the game...



Which doesn't matter when it costs an insane amount of fuel on top of having awful, awful pathing.
15 Jul 2015, 01:05 AM
#38
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

Why need T4? T3 and the right commander is enough to deal with many things. T4 is just the extra stuff for a long game/big team game.


this. now the biggest obstacle for ostheer t4 is that their t3 is just very efficient and potent. i honestly think even if getting to t4 cost as same as going for t3, like the current soviet tech, i would choose t3 most of the time in most cases.
15 Jul 2015, 01:17 AM
#39
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

People always forget about ATGs when talking about how effective tanks are.

P4s can clear ATGs and infantry. Panthers aren't great at this. Panzerwerfers, also from t4, are probably worse than panthers at clearing ATGs.

This is mostly the problem with ostheer t4: it brings nothing substantial to the table except for a tank that's role is mostly reacting to IS2s and ISUs.
15 Jul 2015, 01:48 AM
#40
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871

I still don't get why people think Ost T4 even right now is impossible to achieve in 2v2+. Its quite easy to get by with just T1 / T2. T4 doesnt take that long to get if you are not careless with fuel and cache a bit and bother to use Paks.

Panthers are a decent unit. If you micro it well then its hard to kill for allied tanks unless you are overwhelmed. Keeping it at max range helps a lot as many allied tanks don't have sufficient pen to reliably damage it from the front. With the MG upgrade its pretty OK vs infantry considering its role.

Panzerwerfer isn't great but can still do ok depending on the map. IF the opponent is blobbing hard then it will do well regardless. Sure Katy does the job better but its not always been that way and Ost doesn't deserve to have the best of everything as a stock unit.

Brumbar although maybe a bit expensive is really deadly to infantry and is pretty durable at the same time. Its good fun using in 4v4's :)

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2015, 20:36 PMCorsin

If you played the game, id listen to you, until then you're another clueless forum dweller.


I've never seen you play the game yet I've seen Katitof play. So why should anyone listen to you? Looking at your stats your elo rating is probably pretty low - do you have anything close to "high" level experience?
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