New Incoming Teching Costs.

Reduce Ostheer Panther cost by 25 fuel, make the Pwerfer actually fire 16 rockets like it used to, and make the Sturmpanzer more maneuverable and T4 will be fine.

The whole point of switching BP and structure cost is to give OH the choice to rush either of them.
People have already played in the past T1+T2 into T4, specially on 2v2+.

If you are going to talk about RUSH builds, you need to account for only what is strictly needed to get them. You skip the 75f cost of T3.

IF you want to theoricraft timings, you might as well start adding initial fuel cost, possibility of sidegrades and for the case of OKW the magical .71-.73% fuel convertion.

is it really viable to skip your pak in trying to rush for your tank? The ost is just going to suffer death by light vehicle if they skip the panzerfaust (t1) or the pak (t2).

If you played the game, id listen to you, until then you're another clueless forum dweller.



HOW does a 130 fuel difference = T3 or T4? Its T3 to survive the midgame. And T4 is yet again out of reach.

The reason Soviet tech is T1 or T2 is because they start off with 50 fuel so they can get either...


Does Wehrmacht T4 cost the same as T3? No its 130 fuel behind. Use your head... jesus...

How hard will it be to explain to you that wehr T4 have much stronger units then soviet or USF T4 and it needs to be more expensive for balance reasons, yet its more accessible with new costs then it was with old ones?

Difference between you and me here is that I have played with the changes for some time(oh look, your first argument goes straight down the shitter!) and you're just talking out of your ass.

Ost T4 is much more accessible then it is with current tech.

Reduce Ostheer Panther cost by 25 fuel.

Also reduce its range to 40, penetration to 80-120 and give it 5 second reload?
5 more fuel will be good enough excuse to keep 320 armor over KV-1 which costs 145.

Lolcake would be proud of your suggestions.

How hard will it be to explain to you that wehr T4 have much stronger units then soviet or USF T4 and it needs to be more expensive for balance reasons, yet its more accessible with new costs then it was with old ones?

Difference between you and me here is that I have played with the changes for some time(oh look, your first argument goes straight down the shitter!) and you're just talking out of your ass.

Ost T4 is much more accessible then it is with current tech.

Why would you ever want to go T4 other than for a Panther? Especially when for that price you could just get 2 PIV's, or a PIV and a StuG III or just a smattering of StuG III's and Ostwinds.

This patch hasn't solved the issue of Ostheer T4 being aggressively mediocre for what you pay for. It would be a fairly easy fix just to give the Pwerfer it's old rockets back and make the Sturmpanzer move like the crew isn't drunk and lower the cost of the Panther a tiny bit.

T3 has literally everything you need in it, T4 has overpriced mediocrity.

is it really viable to skip your pak in trying to rush for your tank? The ost is just going to suffer death by light vehicle if they skip the panzerfaust (t1) or the pak (t2).

You don't save much by skipping either of those.

Why would you ever want to go T4 other than for a Panther? Especially when for that price you could just get 2 PIV's, or a PIV and a StuG III or just a smattering of StuG III's and Ostwinds.

This patch hasn't solved the issue of Ostheer T4 being aggressively mediocre for what you pay for. It would be a fairly easy fix just to give the Pwerfer it's old rockets back and make the Sturmpanzer move like the crew isn't drunk and lower the cost of the Panther a tiny bit.

T3 has literally everything you need in it, T4 has overpriced mediocrity.

You're paying bigger price for superior units.
You may call it what you want, but you're getting superior armor there that will beat every single other tank 1v1 short of IS-2. That isn't medicority. Brummbar also performs excellent against infantry right now.

Only pwerfer isn't super amazing, but god forbid single soviet stock unit would perform better then its ost counterpart for the same cost, you already have superior sniper, superior generalist infantry, superior AT gun and superior mortars, can't have everything superior, sorry.

There is no problem holding out to T4 with command tank, especially now that it got a tremendous buff.

Lowering panthers cost would equal lowering its stats.

Only pwerfer isn't super amazing, but god forbid single soviet stock unit would perform better then its ost counterpart for the same cost, you already have superior sniper, superior generalist infantry, superior AT gun and superior mortars, can't have everything superior, sorry.

thats not good enough

Fix the damn strumpanzer pathing.

You're paying bigger price for superior units.
You may call it what you want, but you're getting superior armor there that will beat every single other tank 1v1 short of IS-2. That isn't medicority. Brummbar also performs excellent against infantry right now.

Only pwerfer isn't super amazing, but god forbid single soviet stock unit would perform better then its ost counterpart for the same cost, you already have superior sniper, superior generalist infantry, superior AT gun and superior mortars, can't have everything superior, sorry.

There is no problem holding out to T4 with command tank, especially now that it got a tremendous buff.

Lowering panthers cost would equal lowering its stats.

Except you will be severely outnumbered because you paid 2 or 3 times more for your one than than your enemy did for his. Again, you have not brought up a single reason to go for T4 instead of T3 when Ostwind as AI vastly is more efficient than a Sturmpanzer AND gives AA. And the Pwerfer is a literal joke of a unit.

T3 has everything you need for the entire game, what is the point of T4?

Why need T4? T3 and the right commander is enough to deal with many things. T4 is just the extra stuff for a long game/big team game.

Ostwind and Pzwerfer should trade spots

Ostwind and Pzwerfer should trade spots

ost need aaa more than they need arty.

@Alex, the strumpanzer has some of the best AI abilities in the game...

Ostwind and Pzwerfer should trade spots

That's a good idea

ost need aaa more than they need arty.

They've got more options than anyone else even without Ostwind! They just need to shell out munitions for it. 222 upgrade can shoot down planes and pintle MGs from like every tank can as well. Soviets need IS-2/ISU DShK or M5 AA, USF have AAHT or Sherman pintles, OKW have Flak HT or T3 (can also get pintles from Panther or PIV [KT doesn't really count if you really want AA...], but resource penalty make this have a bit more cost opportunity than Ostheer's options for it).

@Alex, the strumpanzer has some of the best AI abilities in the game...

Which doesn't matter when it costs an insane amount of fuel on top of having awful, awful pathing.

Why need T4? T3 and the right commander is enough to deal with many things. T4 is just the extra stuff for a long game/big team game.

this. now the biggest obstacle for ostheer t4 is that their t3 is just very efficient and potent. i honestly think even if getting to t4 cost as same as going for t3, like the current soviet tech, i would choose t3 most of the time in most cases.

People always forget about ATGs when talking about how effective tanks are.

P4s can clear ATGs and infantry. Panthers aren't great at this. Panzerwerfers, also from t4, are probably worse than panthers at clearing ATGs.

This is mostly the problem with ostheer t4: it brings nothing substantial to the table except for a tank that's role is mostly reacting to IS2s and ISUs.

I still don't get why people think Ost T4 even right now is impossible to achieve in 2v2+. Its quite easy to get by with just T1 / T2. T4 doesnt take that long to get if you are not careless with fuel and cache a bit and bother to use Paks.

Panthers are a decent unit. If you micro it well then its hard to kill for allied tanks unless you are overwhelmed. Keeping it at max range helps a lot as many allied tanks don't have sufficient pen to reliably damage it from the front. With the MG upgrade its pretty OK vs infantry considering its role.

Panzerwerfer isn't great but can still do ok depending on the map. IF the opponent is blobbing hard then it will do well regardless. Sure Katy does the job better but its not always been that way and Ost doesn't deserve to have the best of everything as a stock unit.

Brumbar although maybe a bit expensive is really deadly to infantry and is pretty durable at the same time. Its good fun using in 4v4's

If you played the game, id listen to you, until then you're another clueless forum dweller.

I've never seen you play the game yet I've seen Katitof play. So why should anyone listen to you? Looking at your stats your elo rating is probably pretty low - do you have anything close to "high" level experience?