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New Incoming Teching Costs.

15 Jul 2015, 01:54 AM
#41
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Are we still operating under the "If someone else has something worse nobody else can have something better" because that's a really really shitty reason to keep the Pwerfer a useless piece of shit.

T4 is achievable, but why would you want to achieve it when you can much more easily go for T3? IMO I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a buff to the werfer, and a slight cost reduction for the Panther if T4 is going to be so extremely expensive.
15 Jul 2015, 02:00 AM
#42
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871

Are we still operating under the "If someone else has something worse nobody else can have something better" because that's a really really shitty reason to keep the Pwerfer a useless piece of shit.

T4 is achievable, but why would you want to achieve it when you can much more easily go for T3? IMO I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a buff to the werfer, and a slight cost reduction for the Panther if T4 is going to be so extremely expensive.


A small buff to the Panzerwerfer is probably in order, but I don't think it needs much.

If Panther has its cost reduced then imo it needs to have some sort of reduction, probably a small armour reduction.

One of the main gripes I have with tanks generally is that Axis armour usually will gain something to boost suitability (usually armour or health buff at vet 2) while allied armour usually gains damage / movement based increases. In my eyes it means keep fragile allied armour alive doesnt get any easier with vet, yet axis armour (which is generally easier to keep alive anyway) just gets an easier time of it. Taking this into consideration, if you make panthers cheaper it will probably cause long term problems, with allies having issues finishing them off and ending up with more and more. I don't play 1v1s so I'm not sure on the state of the Panther there but in 2v2+ that is defiantly the case.
15 Jul 2015, 02:25 AM
#43
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470



A small buff to the Panzerwerfer is probably in order, but I don't think it needs much.

If Panther has its cost reduced then imo it needs to have some sort of reduction, probably a small armour reduction.

One of the main gripes I have with tanks generally is that Axis armour usually will gain something to boost suitability (usually armour or health buff at vet 2) while allied armour usually gains damage / movement based increases. In my eyes it means keep fragile allied armour alive doesnt get any easier with vet, yet axis armour (which is generally easier to keep alive anyway) just gets an easier time of it. Taking this into consideration, if you make panthers cheaper it will probably cause long term problems, with allies having issues finishing them off and ending up with more and more. I don't play 1v1s so I'm not sure on the state of the Panther there but in 2v2+ that is defiantly the case.


OKW vet 5 bullshit just makes it worse.
15 Jul 2015, 02:27 AM
#44
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



A small buff to the Panzerwerfer is probably in order, but I don't think it needs much.

If Panther has its cost reduced then imo it needs to have some sort of reduction, probably a small armour reduction.

One of the main gripes I have with tanks generally is that Axis armour usually will gain something to boost suitability (usually armour or health buff at vet 2) while allied armour usually gains damage / movement based increases. In my eyes it means keep fragile allied armour alive doesnt get any easier with vet, yet axis armour (which is generally easier to keep alive anyway) just gets an easier time of it. Taking this into consideration, if you make panthers cheaper it will probably cause long term problems, with allies having issues finishing them off and ending up with more and more. I don't play 1v1s so I'm not sure on the state of the Panther there but in 2v2+ that is defiantly the case.


The werfer does just need a small buff! It's original rocket amount fired of 16. The big issue with the Panther for Ostheer is just it costs to much on top of an already extremely high teching cost. Which is silly because it means for every 1 Panther you have your enemy will have 2-3 tanks.

Combine this with the Panthers very low DPS and there simply isn't much reason to go for one. OKW Panthers are popular because they hit the battlefield in a reasonable amount of time.

15 Jul 2015, 05:08 AM
#45
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2015, 00:45 AMVuther

They've got more options than anyone else even without Ostwind! They just need to shell out munitions for it. 222 upgrade can shoot down planes and pintle MGs from like every tank can as well. Soviets need IS-2/ISU DShK or M5 AA, USF have AAHT or Sherman pintles, OKW have Flak HT or T3 (can also get pintles from Panther or PIV [KT doesn't really count if you really want AA...], but resource penalty make this have a bit more cost opportunity than Ostheer's options for it).


the pintle mg42 and the 20mm are not that good at shooting down planes. You would need like 3x pz4 to see the difference.

I do think the panzerwerfer is a bit underwhelming atm, but moving it isn't the answer.

The improvement from t3 to t4 is substantially smaller than going from t2 to t4. t4 shouldn't be more expensive than t3.


OKW Panthers are popular because they hit the battlefield in a reasonable amount of time.


the coaxial and hull mg on the okw panther are also substantially better.
15 Jul 2015, 05:16 AM
#46
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2015, 01:05 AMpigsoup


this. now the biggest obstacle for ostheer t4 is that their t3 is just very efficient and potent. i honestly think even if getting to t4 cost as same as going for t3, like the current soviet tech, i would choose t3 most of the time in most cases.


Yeah, if BP2 was skippable and BP3 costed the same and T4 the same as BP2 and T3, i would still build T3 over T4.

I can spam tanks from T3... And that makes it all the better.
15 Jul 2015, 10:34 AM
#47
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

Hm. Reaching T4 isn't expensive for OKW but once reached I don't believe the tanks will flow as they will flow from Soviet's T4.

Wehrmacht? LOL. Learn to resist with a pak and a couple of pzgrens with shrecks boys, this will be your future.
15 Jul 2015, 10:55 AM
#48
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2015, 18:42 PMCorsin
So these are the new costs for teching that will be with us on the 21st.



SO...
OKW tech costs are cheaper than all other factions, however probably to counter the fact that their tanks are alot more expencive. The cost of the new P4 in their tech tree may be a deciding factor to the outcome of this.

USF are the second cheapest. However their vehicles are not as expensive as OKW and an issue here would be the arrival of US tanks too early. (OKW at least have timers on their trucks).

Soviet, Pretty happy with these costs. Its nice that finally they will have to build T3 rather than rushing out a Katyusha within 12 mins.

Wehrmacht... Now this here is probably the issue. 310 fuel is ALOT higher than any of the other factions, and Wehrmacht cannot realistically skip a teir in a close game (1v1 or 2v2) Unlike the soviets or USF or OKW. I fail to see the point of decreasing the Battle phase costs by 5, to increase building costs by 50...
Meaning they are nearly 100 fuel more expensive to tech than any other faction.

/Discuss.


lul what a biais assumption. If Werhmarch wants to skip building and rush T4, they only need to pay for their tier upgrades, not their T1,T2 or T3.
Not realistic? but it is the true. Because seriously assuming USF can rush T4 without BARs or ambulance is absolutely not realistic as well and it doesn't bother you to set it as a valid rush method.
15 Jul 2015, 17:50 PM
#49
avatar of Corsin

Posts: 600

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2015, 10:55 AMEsxile


lul what a biais assumption. If Werhmarch wants to skip building and rush T4, they only need to pay for their tier upgrades, not their T1,T2 or T3.
Not realistic? but it is the true. Because seriously assuming USF can rush T4 without BARs or ambulance is absolutely not realistic as well and it doesn't bother you to set it as a valid rush method.



SO they can save 5 fuel with the battle phases? But T4 is made 50 more expensive? I fail to see how there is an option here, since skipping T3 and going T4 costs an extra 130 fuel.
15 Jul 2015, 18:13 PM
#50
avatar of HolyUnlyrical_Lyrics

Posts: 120

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2015, 23:23 PMCorsin


First off... you dont play the game at all... and ive played with these patch changes myself...

Wehr T4 DOESNT have much stronger units though...

Panther is decent, Brumbar is ok vs inf but speed/armor isnt that fantastic, and certainly not worth the cost, and the pwerfer isnt anywhere near as gooda s the Katyusha.

Im not even suggesting it should be the same price, but it shouldn't be such a massive amount of fuel more expensive.

SU85 vet 2 is prob the best TD in the game with its insane rate of fire, i love it. its my fave sov unit. Doesnt mean it should be on the field 100 fuel before the first panther.

And no... 10 fuel reduced price in battle phases and 100 fuel increased price on the buildings DOES NOT make T4 more accessible than it currently is...

Unless you think an extra 90 fuel requirement means faster? in which case i suggest you seek professional help.

Difference between me and you here, (couldnt resist) Other than my obvious superior intelligence, capability of rational thought. common sense and good looks, is that I PLAY THE GAME (you dont, dont pretend you do) i play both factions (Again, you dont, dont pretend you do).

So who is talking out of their ass? captian 10,000 balance posts 100 hrs game?



You pretty much summed up everything everybody holds against katikof. Legend
15 Jul 2015, 18:19 PM
#51
avatar of J1N6666

Posts: 306




You pretty much summed up everything everybody holds against katikof. Legend


Not summed well enough. Only until a thousand dick slappings has been delivered, it will never be enough.
15 Jul 2015, 18:29 PM
#52
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Well then, you'd have to do better as you make for just three dicks slapping on me. :snfBarton:
Extremely floppy ones as well. :snfPeter:
15 Jul 2015, 18:34 PM
#53
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

I like where this thread is going



the pintle mg42 and the 20mm are not that good at shooting down planes. You would need like 3x pz4 to see the difference.

I do think the panzerwerfer is a bit underwhelming atm, but moving it isn't the answer.

The improvement from t3 to t4 is substantially smaller than going from t2 to t4. t4 shouldn't be more expensive than t3.



the coaxial and hull mg on the okw panther are also substantially better.

I'm pretty sure I've seen three pintle 42s bring down planes pretty fast. Two should stop a P-47 attack by a good amount of the duration, but certainly not instantly - and hopefully the P-47 loiter radius reduction should make said AA feel less needed.
15 Jul 2015, 18:55 PM
#54
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

People, while Ostheer has the priciest teching they also have the best HMG ingame available from HQ, 2nd best infantry squad, best sniper, best mortar, best AT gun, best infantry AT ingame, Scout Car that punches over its weight, upgrades included through linear teching, and of course recon Pios that can lay very effective mines.

15 Jul 2015, 20:09 PM
#55
avatar of HolyUnlyrical_Lyrics

Posts: 120

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2015, 18:29 PMKatitof
Well then, you'd have to do better as you make for just three dicks slapping on me. :snfBarton:
Extremely floppy ones as well. :snfPeter:


I always wondered, does your mirror image scream in disgust when it faces the reality of knowing to whom it is connected?
15 Jul 2015, 22:59 PM
#56
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2015, 17:50 PMCorsin



SO they can save 5 fuel with the battle phases? But T4 is made 50 more expensive? I fail to see how there is an option here, since skipping T3 and going T4 costs an extra 130 fuel.


Math too hard?

Lower battle-phase cost allows you to seize and advantage earlier. If you have alot of map, u can fast tech to t4 and get a panther by 14-18 minutes.
16 Jul 2015, 07:54 AM
#57
avatar of Blalord

Posts: 742 | Subs: 1



Math too hard?

Lower battle-phase cost allows you to seize and advantage earlier. If you have alot of map, u can fast tech to t4 and get a panther by 14-18 minutes.


Fast tech to T4 when its even more expensive, wut ?
16 Jul 2015, 08:58 AM
#58
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jul 2015, 07:54 AMBlalord


Fast tech to T4 when its even more expensive, wut ?

Its not like allied tech didn't changed you know.

Some people seem to have incredibly hard time comprehending tech costs changes and the fact that it affected everyone except OKW who previously had cheapest teching and now have laughably cheap teching.
16 Jul 2015, 09:00 AM
#59
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482

It's not even the fuel costs that bother me so much, though they are a bit high, it's the manpower costs that frustrate me. 360 MP to tech Battle Phase 2 and build Tier 3 is just ridiculous.

lol while Usf can gain a free unit costing only 200 MP...
16 Jul 2015, 09:04 AM
#60
avatar of Blalord

Posts: 742 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jul 2015, 08:58 AMKatitof

Its not like allied tech didn't changed you know.

Some people seem to have incredibly hard time comprehending tech costs changes and the fact that it affected everyone except OKW who previously had cheapest teching and now have laughably cheap teching.


Can you explain me how a faster T3 for soviet and +40 fuel for major as anything to do with a "hey rush Tech 4 when its even more expensive" thing ? Why spend this immense amount of fuel just for a panther when T3 tanks do the job very well ?

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