CAS Axis cmrd is by far the best cmdr for team games (3vs3+)

I think it's very amusing how the allies cry about CAS.

- AI strafe is only OP against blobs
- AT strafe is only OP against multiple (non-microd) tanks in one spot
- Stuka bomb is only OP against mass retreat.

Learn how to dodge, learn how to micro, learn how to Play, stop crying and don't blob.

Thats the secret to nullify CAS

Yes, and you will fail. You abuse of conversion and are efficient, or you try to make everything and fail. That is the way it works. Not that you would know it.

Maybe a skill problem of yours . Every time I have use CAS, I have field 1 or 2 Pz4 and it works perfectly. In 1vs1 and 4vs4.
Even better now with the new Stug it is completely easy to save 2x90 fuel to build 2 of them to counter Allied mediums. Just keep the strafing is an IS2/ISU pops.

Maybe a skill problem of yours .

What, you used it once? Not a skill problem, and not a problem at all. It's a mathematical and echonomical issue.

Every time I have use CAS, I have field 1 or 2 Pz4 and it works perfectly. In 1vs1 and 4vs4.

Than you don't use it properly and don't obtain maximum effect from it.

I think it's very amusing how the allies cry about CAS.

- AI strafe is only OP against blobs
- AT strafe is only OP against multiple (non-microd) tanks in one spot
- Stuka bomb is only OP against mass retreat.

Learn how to dodge, learn how to micro, learn how to Play, stop crying and don't blob.

Thats the secret to nullify CAS

Meanwhile in a P47 thread, and comparing with Stuka:

I saw this very often. i think both are hard to counter. my stuka was also shot down one time by aaht, before it was able to shoot.

but i agree that it is much easier for OKW since they have flaks in their base

Really nice that in one thread you laugh at allies because they have to learn to dodge while in the other thread you said is really hard to dodge...even accepting OKW has a easier time facing P-47 than allies has facing Stuka from CAS.


Lovely!!!

I think it's very amusing how the allies cry about CAS.

- AI strafe is only OP against blobs
- AT strafe is only OP against multiple (non-microd) tanks in one spot
- Stuka bomb is only OP against mass retreat.

Learn how to dodge, learn how to micro, learn how to Play, stop crying and don't blob.

Thats the secret to nullify CAS

That reminds me of something.....

What if we changed a detail here and there and....

I think it's very amusing how the axis cry about B4.

- B4 is only OP against blobs
- B4+FTM is only OP against multiple (non-microd) tanks in one spot
- B4 precision strike is only OP against mass retreat.

Learn how to dodge, learn how to micro, learn how to Play, stop crying and don't blob.

Thats the secret to nullify B4

And hey? Look how that ended!

Do you see some resemblance in reasoning?

What, you used it once? Not a skill problem, and not a problem at all. It's a mathematical and echonomical issue.



Than you don't use it properly and don't obtain maximum effect from it.

what play style would achieve maximum effect?

Meanwhile in a P47 thread, and comparing with Stuka:





Really nice that in one thread you laugh at allies because they have to learn to dodge while in the other thread you said is really hard to dodge...even accepting OKW has a easier time facing P-47 than allies has facing Stuka from CAS.


Lovely!!!

In P47-Thread I was talking about the Stuka Close Air Support from Lightning War which isn't a skill plane and has area. I didn't declared it there

That reminds me of something.....

What if we changed a detail here and there and....



And hey? Look how that ended!

Do you see some resemblance in reasoning?

And hey, I never complained about B4 because i don't blob and i know how to counter it.

What, you used it once? Not a skill problem, and not a problem at all. It's a mathematical and echonomical issue.



Than you don't use it properly and don't obtain maximum effect from it.

Used it 6 time in 4vs4, 6 victories. I start to use it in 1vs1 to recover from my negative ratio and only decided to stop using it just to improve my skill instead of abusing easy abilities.

But you have the point, mathematically it is impossible to lose with CAS if you don't screw yourself.

CAS is strong and to some extent overpowered (AT strafe) but it does have some weaknesses, mainly the crippling fuel drain leaving you with very little armour.

No one forces you to switch fuel into munition.

what play style would achieve maximum effect?

For 3v3 or 4v4 maps, Esxile could be right though a teching to T4 and build of much more powerfull units from there would have better impact. One Panther may have a little impact, but one P IV will have zero impact on this kind of game. The only problem in 3v3 and 4v4 is the map size, you can relay on vehicles to be able to reach far points when you are needed but your opponent can pick a propaganda artilery doctrine for instance which is uncounterable and make you walk the map forever while not being able to participate at engagements where you are needed or efficiently cap. Supporting your mates only with air strikes won't be enough plus you can't properly support them if you use fuel for other things. And air strikes become available since middle game. Untill then, if you have verry good opponents, you can even lose map control. By the way, these are the disadvantages of CAS and due to them CAS can be counterplayed.

For 2v2s don't even bother with teching more than Tier2. After T2 convert ALL your fuel and equip ALL your infantry with weapons. A sdkfz for reinforcing on the field while moving is perfect. Pzgrens with shrecks, grens with lmgs. Mines, air strikes + the ultimate blob. Your team mate must build vehicles to compensate.

Does this answer to your question?

On a more serious note. Counters:

1. build tanks;
2. build 120s /artilery / katiushas, whatever ballistic weapon you want;
3. plant mines and/or demo charges;
4. build AA;
5. any 2 points from above used together.

Protips.

1. In 1vs1 bumrushing CAS with a blob of t70s or HE shermans is kinda an option if your opponent doesn't go tanks. In teamgames this stops being an option because other players can cover and there's only so many vehicles you can get into a fight.
2. AT strafe, stuka bomb and recon run are literally the easiest counters in the game to trying to use barrage weapons. They'd do better against any other doctrine choice from Ostheer, how is that supposed to be a counter?
3. This helps how? CAS stops you from getting sweepers? I must have missed that.
4. It helps so much to shoot down planes that have already fired so they become RNG bombs to further rain down death on you. Unless your opponent is spamming CAS abilities always from the same direction on a large teamgame map you will never shoot down a CAS plane before it has delivered its payload.
5. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'll give my tips on how to counter CAS:
1. Win game before they get access to the strafes
2. else, /leave

Protips.

1. In 1vs1 bumrushing CAS with a blob of t70s or HE shermans is kinda an option if your opponent doesn't go tanks. In teamgames this stops being an option because other players can cover and there's only so many vehicles you can get into a fight.

Or, you could say, "never use CAS in 1v1" which is a verry good piece of advice.

2. AT strafe, stuka bomb and recon run are literally the easiest counters in the game to trying to use barrage weapons. They'd do better against any other doctrine choice from Ostheer, how is that supposed to be a counter?

Ok, so I will use Stuka dive bomb to counter ONE 120? 'Cause nobody sain enough will keep their 120s blobbed. How is strafing run helping against mortars / Zis or other balistic weapons? It's verry good against infantry blobs but that's about it.

3. This helps how? CAS stops you from getting sweepers? I must have missed that.

You can do that or not. In the large majority of games, people are mining, it's something that everybody does, right? I mean what, if I see CAS doctrine I should stop mining because, anyway, it won't do me any good?

4. It helps so much to shoot down planes that have already fired so they become RNG bombs to further rain down death on you. Unless your opponent is spamming CAS abilities always from the same direction on a large teamgame map you will never shoot down a CAS plane before it has delivered its payload.

Well, Relic thinks that falling planes it's a "spectacular event". What can we do about it? . I don't remember soviet planes being shotdown before they delivered payloads either. Especially that soviet bomber from tank hunters doctrine that leave no chance to any ostheer and especially OKW's emplacements / deployed field trucks. Is that a skill plane or what?

I'll give my tips on how to counter CAS:
1. Win game before they get access to the strafes
2. else, /leave

That may also be true, though I disagree that is true in every single situation.

Or, you could say, "never use CAS in 1v1" which is a verry good piece of advice.

???

Ostheer has no real need for commander abilities, and nobody is forcing you to spend all your fuel in the conversion. Honestly speaking the only way you will lose with CAS is either losing the game before the cheese train even gets going or to a massive anti-inf vehicle push. So knowing that, prepare.

Ok, so I will use Stuka dive bomb to counter ONE 120? 'Cause nobody sain enough will keep their 120s blobbed. How is strafing run helping against mortars / Zis or other balistic weapons? It's verry good against infantry blobs but that's about it.

Why wouldn't you use it to counter one 120mm? I'd take a 340MP for 50 fuel trade any day of the week.

AT strafe, not infantry strafe. It will outright destroy a B4 on a single strafe, about 50/50 on destroying an ml-20, obviously destroys any katyusha that stays still for it, and slaughters the crew on mortars and atguns (plus will destroy the gun if not repaired after 2 or 3 strafes)

You can do that or not. In the large majority of games, people are mining, it's something that everybody does, right? I mean what, if I see CAS doctrine I should stop mining because, anyway, it won't do me any good?

CAS is, if anything, stronger against mines than any other ostheer doctrine because it gives such massive map control through the strafes. So it's funny you'd try to list it as a counter to it.

Well, Relic thinks that falling planes it's a "spectacular event". What can we do about it? . I don't remember soviet planes being shotdown before they delivered payloads either. Especially that soviet bomber from tank hunters doctrine that leave no chance to any ostheer and especially OKW's emplacements / deployed field trucks. Is that a skill plane or what?

You're the one trying to list AA as a counter when even you admit it doesn't work. And you're still more likely to shoot down soviet planes as axis than axis planes as allies due to all the extra anti-air you have in the form of tank-MGs and base defenses. Not that I think there realistically is that much chance of shooting down stuff other than the allied supply drop.

No one forces you to switch fuel into munition.

...?

I didn't say anyone did. Noone forces you to choose CAS or even play CoH. But we are talking about what an allied player can do when the OH player choose to use CAS.

So:

The powerful side of CAS that OP had difficulties facing were the number of (and strength of) strafes - these cost munitions.

To get the most out of CAS a player needs to do a lot of fuel-muni conversion.

When facing a player who is converting all his fuel into munitions, there are ways to adapt and punish his choices.



If you thought I was complaining that CAS leaves you with no fuel, you are wrong. I was explaining the downside of the doctrine so OP could find a way to counter it.

but I think the pzgrenadiers with pzschreck r just a joke.thats it.

Hate fucking Cas, it is the most unbalanced doctrine in game. Remove it or nerf.