CAS Axis cmrd is by far the best cmdr for team games (3vs3+)

Cruzz knows Relic's own code better than Relic knows their own code. That should be enough to show you how right Cruzz is all the time.

i'm not sure relic ever really understood their games; they sure didn't do very well with DoW2

We been playing Axis lately and CAS is my favorite. Axis are so fun to play. I understand why they are so liked. Anyone who have played both side in 4vs4 can see that Axis are a lot easier and much more rewarding.

So for me Axis = Fun,easy to play, versatile and powerful.
Allies = Redundant, harder to play, have some good units and you must like to suffer. (like me)

For the sake of COH2, this must change, both should be fun and as powerful as the other side.


Plz don't nerf the CAS cmdr cause it's so fun to play with, rather add some allies cmrds with good stuff.


Allies fun factor must be improved.

How about this:

For me Axis is easier to play in 4v4 and therefore not fun. Winning is not so rewarding.
Playing 4v4 as Allies on the other side gives much more satisfaction when you win (because it was uphill battle) and less frustration when you lose (because it was uphill battle anyway )

Winning is especially rewarding when you manage to stomp Axis players on your part of map right from start and then go to your allies on the other part of map and stomp Axis there.

But I do agree - playing against CAS (or worse - double CAS o_o) is annoying at least. I've lost count how many Katys I've lost to recon + AT strafe right on my base when I was controling some dense engagement.

Sorry but calling you a fool for arguing with Cruzz applies to all of us, as he is God.

He knows alot of things, almost all about this game, but I am not the only one that observed he is a little allied biased. That is why I do not trust in his opinions 100%. It's not like I would know not even half of what he knows or even play at his level. Or that I am not biased myself. These being said, the man is biased and it shows. Never saw a word against allied posted by him, against axis on the other hand....

This is my opinion and since is a free world I can express it.

Conversion and OKW's reduced income works based on percentages, which is how I got the idea. And Stuka Dive Bomb absolutely has to work on on-map artillery, it's the only real counter to it due to the ability to construct it in base sectors.

Stuka bombing strike is fine, it has a loud sound cue and requires the other play to move. Abilities like this are good because they encourage better micro. When this becomes problematic is when paired with an extremely efficient conversion like CAS has.

I think that the OKW conversion has a max increase of 2 muni for 1 fuel. If the fuel and muni income are balanced then you get the regular conversion rate.

I wouldn't mind the Stuka dive bomb if the conversion was just eliminated. The Soviet doctrines that have those type of bombing runs don't have fuel to muni conversion. Either that or make AA that actually works and give me a chance to counter.

We been playing Axis lately and CAS is my favorite. Axis are so fun to play. I understand why they are so liked. Anyone who have played both side in 4vs4 can see that Axis are a lot easier and much more rewarding.

So for me Axis = Fun,easy to play, versatile and powerful.
Allies = Redundant, harder to play, have some good units and you must like to suffer. (like me)

For the sake of COH2, this must change, both should be fun and as powerful as the other side.


Plz don't nerf the CAS cmdr cause it's so fun to play with, rather add some allies cmrds with good stuff.


Allies fun factor must be improved.

Sure, make a mirror image Allied CAS, replacing the AT strafe with P47's. Will be awesome. Every allied team would have at least two playing USF CAS, ensuring the game was miserable for everyone not using CAS.

He knows alot of things, almost all about this game, but I am not the only one that observed he is a little allied biased. That is why I do not trust in his opinions 100%. It's not like I would know not even half of what he knows or even play at his level. Or that I am not biased myself. These being said, the man is biased and it shows. Never saw a word against allied posted by him, against axis on the other hand....

This is my opinion and since is a free world I can express it.

Why would that be.... oh, I know!
Because the game itself with broken balance and game changing bugs is a "little" axis biased.
Because if you want to play allies you either cheeze to your hearts content or lose, meaning you have no valid strat or unit comp that would allow you to engage directly axis units.

Cruzzi is as much allied biased as axis and voices it up depending on the current state of balance.
I operate on similar principle.

You on the other hand are pure axis fanboy that makes alex objective(which he actually surprisingly seems to be lately).

He knows alot of things, almost all about this game, but I am not the only one that observed he is a little allied biased. That is why I do not trust in his opinions 100%. It's not like I would know not even half of what he knows or even play at his level. Or that I am not biased myself. These being said, the man is biased and it shows. Never saw a word against allied posted by him, against axis on the other hand....

This is my opinion and since is a free world I can express it.

Would you trust him more if he was "a little axis biased"?
Have you thought of possibility that you (and all those guys) are a little biased by yourself and therefore you percieve his opinion as little allies biased, but in fact he is INDEED ALMIGHTY GOD THAT CAME TO GIVE US A WORD OF PURE WISDOM AND UNOBSTRUCTED TRUTH?!

For the record, since Cruzz is not God allmighty himself,

Nein, he is he is

So much allied bias in this comunity makes me puke. All day, everything you see around here is only call for nerfs towards axis and nobody thinks it's strange. This is the way OKW became the weakest and dullest faction currently. An idiot says something not even worthing to be read and 5 are jumping saying he's right. Just lol. You guys won't stop until axis will become unplayable. Until that day, I will still have time for a few games as long as the balance will not be completely fucked up. GG and HF in your biased world.

So much allied bias in this comunity makes me puke. All day, everything you see around here is only call for nerfs towards axis and nobody thinks it's strange. This is the way OKW became the weakest and dullest faction currently. An idiot says something not even worthing to be read and 5 are jumping saying he's right. Just lol. You guys won't stop until axis will become unplayable. Until that day, I will still have time for a few games as long as the balance will not be completely fucked up. GG and HF in your biased world.

So much allied bias in this comunity makes me puke. All day, everything you see around here is only call for nerfs towards axis and nobody thinks it's strange. This is the way OKW became the weakest and dullest faction currently. An idiot says something not even worthing to be read and 5 are jumping saying he's right. Just lol. You guys won't stop until axis will become unplayable. Until that day, I will still have time for a few games as long as the balance will not be completely fucked up. GG and HF in your biased world.

+1
True words has been spoken

So much allied bias in this comunity makes me puke. All day, everything you see around here is only call for nerfs towards axis and nobody thinks it's strange. This is the way OKW became the weakest and dullest faction currently. An idiot says something not even worthing to be read and 5 are jumping saying he's right. Just lol. You guys won't stop until axis will become unplayable. Until that day, I will still have time for a few games as long as the balance will not be completely fucked up. GG and HF in your biased world.

So you are telling me that when we as a community decided that the B4, ISU meta, soviet sniper sprint, IL2 strafe, AAHT, 120mm, and other units were OP, we were being allied biased? That with all of the threads to buff MG42, Ostheer sniper, and Stug-g, we were secretly plotting the Axis' demise?

Believe it or not, most of the players in the game (and almost all of the top players) play all the factions, and want nothing more than a completely balanced game. The game is not fun when it is unbalanced, and almost everyone understands that breaking the balance helps noone at the end of the day. Playing all factions means that we also fight all the factions, which gives us a reason not to overbuff a faction just because its funny. Sure, there are some fanboys, but they are very few in number.

If the majority of the community is saying something that goes against your view, you just may be wrong.

You don't need to "hold the line" against some invisible faction of fanboys charging in to nerf the Axis faction, because they don't exist. I feel like if you played all the factions, you would not give the statements you do, but at the same time I cannot verify that point because you don't show your playercard. Take a moment to think: "Why am I defending this ability?" If your logic is based purely on "to make sure [X faction] fanboys can't get a victory," you are doing it for the wrong reason.

Who knows, people might start to take you more seriously.

[This rant applies to everyone, please search your hearts to see if this applies to you. Together, we can make the balance forums a great place for learning and discussion, as it always deserved to be!]

+1
True words has been spoken

JohhnyB can lie, stats No.

http://coh2chart.com/

Since this thread has taken a rather interesting turn regarding Cruzz and some passionate forum poster's, i think it's time to return to the matter at hand:

Close Air Support commander.

For starters, i like to say i have been playing with this commander for the past 6-7 months (so before it even became meta) thus i like to think i know a bit about the commander.

Why is it OP?

In theory, CAS is a unique and fun commander allowing for a completly different ostheer playstyle: one that doesn't rely on tanks, but on infantry+support weapons instead (plus mines, bunkers etc).

In practicse, this commander does far more than that.
By foregoing teching, the ostheer player saves alot of manpower (both on teching itself aswell as on the tanks) which means the ost player has little to no manpower issue's.
Furthermore, the fuel to ammo ability, coupled with the no teching, leads to the ost player not to worry about either fuel, or ammo.

An ostheer player who doesn't need to think about manpower, fuel or ammo, is a very, very scary player to face.

The reason why this doesn't happen the same way with the ostruppen commander is because that commander lacks the abilities to support this play style.
The CAS strafe however, do support it.
Facing arty? Stuka it. Tanks? let's get some schrecks on or just strafe it. Infantry? LOL let's strafe it, lmg gren it or do w/e else strikes my fancy.

In closing, the CAS player doesn't worry about most resources, or most enemy unit's.

So, what can one do vs CAS?

For Soviets, the only 2 tanks that don't oneshotted by the strafe and can take one the shrecks+paks are the IS-2 and ISU-152. Thus these units (and the commanders they come in) should be the ones you pick vs an CAS user.
As Americans, your only options are HE shermans or the m8 scotts (i really don't think the bulldozer is a capable anti-inf tank) everything else falls apart real fast and even these listed options aren't reliable.
As an American facing CAS, you're in for a though time.

The only real counterplay vs CAS, is to constantly be on the lookout for the recon plane and move whatever you think is the intended target (fun mind game stuff for the CAS user, not so much for his enemy). Failing to spot the recon plane more than once is a mistake you can't afford to make.

The nerfs

Not something i am fully sure what is the best course of action, but currently i support the idea of a lower conversion rate+ higher cooldown for the fuel to ammo thing.
This, becuase it's the vital part of this commander, what allows you to do, what you do.
Should it not be enough, we can look at the individual strafe's but imo, they are not what truly allows the madness that full CAS is.

( if you can't tell by now, i really enjoy playing with CAS >.>)

As a reward for reading all this, here is a funny picture explaining once again why CAS is so powerfull:

So much allied bias in this comunity makes me puke. All day, everything you see around here is only call for nerfs towards axis and nobody thinks it's strange. This is the way OKW became the weakest and dullest faction currently. An idiot says something not even worthing to be read and 5 are jumping saying he's right. Just lol. You guys won't stop until axis will become unplayable. Until that day, I will still have time for a few games as long as the balance will not be completely fucked up. GG and HF in your biased world.

If someone (like PussyKing) makes a "plz nurf" thread without providing any arguments, replay or videos, then they usually laughed at by both camps.

If arguments been provided there at least will be a discussion. There is nothing wrong to discuss things and try to convince opponent that truth is on your side through reasoned statements. Ignore others.
Keep in mind, some players arguing just for sake of arguing.

I'm sure devs ignore most of the shit being thrown between axis and allies fanboys camps, so I wouldn't be worried about balance that much.

So you are telling me that when we as a community decided that the B4, ISU meta, soviet sniper sprint, IL2 strafe, AAHT, 120mm, and other units were OP, we were being allied biased? That with all of the threads to buff MG42, Ostheer sniper, and Stug-g, we were secretly plotting the Axis' demise?

"You as comunity" ruined OKW and now you think it's "bad designed" while in alpha, beta, and at the beginning of WFA were simply loving the faction, nothing about "bad design" said then. It became "bad designed" only after fanboys tears destroyed it. The soviet nerfs you mentioned were blatantly needed since longtime ago, long before they were asked. And they only ocured because the same fanboys, bored to death to play only one faction, tried a little axis factions too, and they didn't win anymore. And they like to win. The "against OKW" offensive stopped because the faction is simply wrecked (LOL "balanced" LOL) but now, what do you know, Ostheer starts to be what it's supposed to be. The mg42 change (needed for such a long time) just came and we already have 1-2 threads in which nerfing is required in order to make it shit as it was before. The stug was recenlty changed back into what it supposed to be, a TD, and now we have a TWP thread.

Believe it or not, most of the players in the game (and almost all of the top players) play all the factions, and want nothing more than a completely balanced game. The game is not fun when it is unbalanced, and almost everyone understands that breaking the balance helps noone at the end of the day. Playing all factions means that we also fight all the factions, which gives us a reason not to overbuff a faction just because its funny. Sure, there are some fanboys, but they are very few in number.

What I believe is that are quite a few who want balance but fanboys are many, much more than you want to imply. Top players want balance and they are applauded when they speak for allied and treated with "Oh, I didn't expect this from you, you are a top player, how can you say such a stupid thing?" when they are speaking in axis' favor.

If the majority of the community is saying something that goes against your view, you just may be wrong.

Majority of the community? Most of these guys are not so vocal, they prefer just to read instead expressing their opinions. They won't post unless someone will express their thoughts and another someone will post agreeing with the first. Why? Because they will be called noobs, accused for not posting their stats, etc etc etc....

You don't need to "hold the line" against some invisible faction of fanboys charging in to nerf the Axis faction, because they don't exist. I feel like if you played all the factions, you would not give the statements you do, but at the same time I cannot verify that point because you don't show your playercard. Take a moment to think: "Why am I defending this ability?" If your logic is based purely on "to make sure [X faction] fanboys can't get a victory," you are doing it for the wrong reason.

The only thing against I want to "hold the line" is total balance screwing up and faction destruction which already occured in some cases. Because I like this game and I don't want a bunch of "anti-german/nazi" whatever wannabes destroy the balance just because they learned history watching "Inglorious Bastards" and Clint Eastwood movies or because they hate german language. I am playing enough soviets and USF to know what a rifle spam with smoke grenades / early AA can do, what 120 spam, katiushas or 85s can do. And I like playing Allied factions too, I don't believe to be easier to play as some are saying. But the quantity of allied bias in forums is simply disgusting. That is what I said.

Guys please stop falling for extremely obvious bait

A good way to nerf CAS but still let it be a viable commander is to


1. Double the cooldown of the conversion ability so you can't constantly spam it to spam planes everywhere

2. Move the conversion cost to 5-6 CP so you can't get 6 LMG grens in 10 minutes

3. Lower the conversion rate to 120 munitions.

I'd say options 1 and 2 would be enough. Alternitavely you could nerf the conversion rate but i think that that's not the best option.

"You as comunity" ruined OKW and now you think it's "bad designed" while in alpha, beta, and at the beginning of WFA were simply loving the faction, nothing about "bad design" said then. It became "bad designed" only after fanboys tears destroyed it. The soviet nerfs you mentioned were blatantly needed since longtime ago, long before they were asked. And they only ocured because the same fanboys, bored to death to play only one faction, tried a little axis factions too, and they didn't win anymore. And they like to win. The "against OKW" offensive stopped because the faction is simply wrecked (LOL "balanced" LOL) but now, what do you know, Ostheer starts to be what it's supposed to be. The mg42 change (needed for such a long time) just came and we already have 1-2 threads in which nerfing is required in order to make it shit as it was before. The stug was recenlty changed back into what it supposed to be, a TD, and now we have a TWP thread.

I am sure especially in team games you were loving the faction when you had to do nothing but make unkillable volks squads that countered all allied armor and obers that out dpsed all allied infantry and then just make a KT every single game. Boring as hell and dumb. They are much more balanced now and most I see using a lot more combined arms especially since the rakaten buff. The way it should be. Would also be alright with them having a medium tank but that is about all I see them missing maybe a mortar only if they give USF one.

Most people me included are fine with the MG 42, but are not happy with the fact the maxim remains nerfed to shit as it has been and is useless. Also that USF don't have great options to counter it, but I am fine using smoke.

This always seems typical of the axis having better things and allies not having the equivalent from everything to doctrinal to non-doctrinal. Stuff like calling in a Tiger Ace which is just a dumb idea to begin with. I mean if they were going to buff the MGs then fine why did they not do the same for soviet?

Sure, make a mirror image Allied CAS, replacing the AT strafe with P47's. Will be awesome. Every allied team would have at least two playing USF CAS, ensuring the game was miserable for everyone not using CAS.

Not an allies CAS, not more powerful options but more fun options so allies don't have to make the same build to win.


Allies side should be improved enough so part of the Axis players would want to play them.

It's good for the game, It's good for the player base, everyone win.