Why is it only allied troops have smoke?
Posts: 66
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All mortar teams have smoke. With all the emphasis on MGs being more effective on all sides, why is there no OKW and OH smoke for their troops?? Especially after T2 when riflegrenades are introduced? Seems odd that thebalanced scales are somewhat tipped on something so universal in all armies....
OKW actually does have smoke in the form of Blendekorpe grenades (which are vet based), but you can't really use them to cover an advance because standing in the smoke has the same effect as White Phos.
Good for clearing buildings tho
Posts: 113
All mortar teams have smoke. With all the emphasis on MGs being more effective on all sides, why is there no OKW and OH smoke for their troops?? Especially after T2 when riflegrenades are introduced? Seems odd that thebalanced scales are somewhat tipped on something so universal in all armies....
(Not strictly true, Fallschrimjager and Obers get smoke at Vet 1, and a damned good smoke grenade it is!)
Elsewise, it just means that the Axis player needs to use combined arms to make these sort of assaults. Mortars provide the smoke cover just fine, IMO. And, honestly, giving Axis main-line infantry smoke grenades atop their other smoke options would be a colossal pain in the ass with the current meta as it is.
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(Not strictly true, Fallschrimjager and Obers get smoke at Vet 1, and a damned good smoke grenade it is!)
Elsewise, it just means that the Axis player needs to use combined arms to make these sort of assaults. Mortars provide the smoke cover just fine, IMO. And, honestly, giving Axis main-line infantry smoke grenades atop their other smoke options would be a colossal pain in the ass with the current meta as it is.
IIRC the smoke barrage on the Ostheer mortar is bugged and doesn't work like 60% of the time.
Posts: 1891
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I associate smoke with attacking, and both Axis factions infantry seem long range and defensive.
OKW is almost entirely around aggressive mid to late game play; it just lacks smoke because OKW isn't very well thought as a faction.
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But that is just me, I'm lazy.
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Axis don't need it, because they can just riflenade the mg to death (no need to flank) or pop some elite troops in behind the mg for an easy forced retreat/wipe. Alternatively, you could just use some skill and A-move against an mg with LMG Grens/Obers/Falls.
If you guys want to swap, I'm all in favour.
Posts: 273
2- OST has vehicle smokes from vehicles which is super fast deployed.. Can be used to survive your vehicle in most dangerous situations..
3- OST has smoke bombardment from artillery officer which is neither fast nor slow deployed. Can be used to block certain unit's sight..
4- OST has smoke bombardment from mortars which is had by SOV..
5- OKW has smoke grenaide on their elite troops which harms and slows down units inside it.. Can be used to block certain unit's sight beside dealing some damage and clear houses..
6- OKW has assault heavy bombardment ability on a commander.. Yes it is not so usefull but can be used to cover advancing an area..
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Ostheer:
- Mortar smoke
- Mortar halftrack smoke
- Stuka smoke drop
- Arty officer smoke drop
- Panzer tactitian
Soviets
- mortar smoke
- heavy mortar smoke
- shock trooper grenade
Posts: 334
Ostheer actually has more smoke options than the Soviets.
Ostheer:
- Mortar smoke
- Mortar halftrack smoke
- Stuka smoke drop
- Arty officer smoke drop
- Panzer tactitian
Soviets
- mortar smoke
- heavy mortar smoke
- shock trooper grenade
This.
Posts: 255
Not to mention allied MG's have smaller arcs of fire so it's easier for Axis units to swarm.
And if there's a Maxim spam (hardly ever see .50 cal spam) then OKW has access to the Stuka which clears Maxims like there's no tomorrow if well placed. That could even be GG if the Sov player over invested.
Plain and simple, Axis doesn't really need smoke.
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Ostheer actually has more smoke options than the Soviets.
Ostheer:
- Mortar smoke
- Mortar halftrack smoke
- Stuka smoke drop
- Arty officer smoke drop
- Panzer tactitian
Soviets
- mortar smoke
- heavy mortar smoke
- shock trooper grenade
You have have at max 3 of those at the same time for Ostheer, with most meta commanders only having 2. For Soviets the majority of meta doctrines use Shock Troops or use the 120mm mortar.
Posts: 36
You have have at max 3 of those at the same time for Ostheer, with most meta commanders only having 2. For Soviets the majority of meta doctrines use Shock Troops or use the 120mm mortar.
And what about it? As the Ostheer, you still have the capability of utilising lesser-known/played commanders. Infact, if you are worried about allied heavy mg play then go for it.
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
And what about it? As the Ostheer, you still have the capability of utilising lesser-known/played commanders. Infact, if you are worried about allied heavy mg play then go for it.
As other players have pointed out ITT that it's easier and more efficient to use rifle grenades and indirect fire to get rid of MG's. Which is why Soviets don't have a problem with MG's; they have a lot of indirect fire they can call upon.
OKW is really the only one that suffers due to lack of smoke, because the ISG is still waaay overpriced and outside that your only "breakthrough" arty options are 100 fuel (Stuka) or 160 (Sturmtiger).
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
You have have at max 3 of those at the same time for Ostheer, with most meta commanders only having 2. For Soviets the majority of meta doctrines use Shock Troops or use the 120mm mortar.
The 120mm is in 3 doctrines.
Shock troopers are in 6 doctrines, one of which shares the 120.
60% of soviet doctrines do not have access to smoke besides their 82mm mortar.
Stuka smoke drops are in 2 doctrines
Officers are in 4 doctrines
MHT are in 2 doctrines, one of which shares Stuka smoke drop and one of which has Panzer tactician
Panzer tactician is in 6 doctrines.
40% of Ostheer doctrines do not have access to smoke besides from their 80mm mortar.
Ostheer. Has. More. Smoke. Than. Soviets. More doctrines with smoke, more doctrines with 3 sources of smoke. They just don't need it (besides easy to use panzer tactician) because the only thing Ostheer needs to counter HMGs is assault them head on and fire vet2 rifle grenades from max range.
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
The 120mm is in 3 doctrines.
Shock troopers are in 6 doctrines, one of which shares the 120.
60% of soviet doctrines do not have access to smoke besides their 82mm mortar.
Stuka smoke drops are in 2 doctrines
Officers are in 4 doctrines
MHT are in 2 doctrines, one of which shares Stuka smoke drop and one of which has Panzer tactician
Panzer tactician is in 6 doctrines.
40% of Ostheer doctrines do not have access to smoke besides from their 80mm mortar.
Ostheer. Has. More. Smoke. Than. Soviets. More doctrines with smoke, more doctrines with 3 sources of smoke. They just don't need it (besides easy to use panzer tactician) because the only thing Ostheer needs to counter HMGs is assault them head on and fire vet2 rifle grenades from max range.
I agree; which is why I just said this:
As other players have pointed out ITT that it's easier and more efficient to use rifle grenades and indirect fire to get rid of MG's. Which is why Soviets don't have a problem with MG's; they have a lot of indirect fire they can call upon.
OKW is really the only one that suffers due to lack of smoke, because the ISG is still waaay overpriced and outside that your only "breakthrough" arty options are 100 fuel (Stuka) or 160 (Sturmtiger).
Soviets don't really need smoke either because unseating enemy fortified positions for them isn't really all that much of a challenge. The problem is for OKW which has no smoke on top of very little indirect fire, and USF has smoke and essentially now heavy indirect outside of a single doctrine.
And I probably should have specified that the most meta Soviet Commanders do have ready access to smoke.
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