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Ostheer HMG too strong now

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28 Jun 2015, 18:47 PM
#281
avatar of daspoulos

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Permanently Banned
Yeah 260-280 mp seems fair for current mg. But I'd really like if they just changed the incremental accuracy instead. Like when its per model it just shoots up suppression across the board even against 1 squad. Why can't it be incremental accuracy per squad? That way mgs are largely the same against 1 squad like before, but when someone is clearly blobbing and multiple squads enter the arc then they get hit with uber mgs. Just my thoughts.
28 Jun 2015, 18:53 PM
#282
avatar of somenbjorn

Posts: 923

Guys guys guys.. do you remember when Maxim was (correctly) nerfed and the Wehraboo crowd defended this action with "a 240 mp squad should not win over a 1000mp group". (Silly argument I know)

Im just wondering what those people think of the Mg-42.


(Yes I mostly agree with the mg-42 changes, Im just curious what the different fanboy factions are doing now)
28 Jun 2015, 20:32 PM
#284
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589

Guys guys guys.. do you remember when Maxim was (correctly) nerfed and the Wehraboo crowd defended this action with "a 240 mp squad should not win over a 1000mp group". (Silly argument I know)

Im just wondering what those people think of the Mg-42.


(Yes I mostly agree with the mg-42 changes, Im just curious what the different fanboy factions are doing now)


Read any page on this thread, and you're golden.
28 Jun 2015, 20:54 PM
#285
avatar of Nosliw

Posts: 515

A well designed RTS game will include units that punish unit blobbing and therefore poor play. Just look at starcraft. One high templar could kill 50 marines (50 min/150 gas templar vs 2500 min of marines) but no one would say templar is OP. They'd just say get good and learn to micro.
28 Jun 2015, 21:00 PM
#286
avatar of Nosliw

Posts: 515

One thing that does seem really good about the MG42 is its ability to switch targets and pin multiple split squads in the arc of fire. In CoH1 you had to wait for the MG42 to finish the entire burst before you could tell it to switch targets, and it would slowly aim at the next squad. If you told it to fire mid burst it would pack up and redeploy. In CoH2 I'm pretty sure it just quikcly aims to the next squad and suppresses it.
28 Jun 2015, 21:01 PM
#287
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jun 2015, 20:54 PMNosliw
A well designed RTS game will include units that punish unit blobbing and therefore poor play. Just look at starcraft. One high templar could kill 50 marines (50 min/150 gas templar vs 2500 min of marines) but no one would say templar is OP. They'd just say get good and learn to micro.


Guess this doesn't apply to this game then. It's obviously badly designed (in your own implication).

Having only the 50% of the factions have an early game unit capable of stopping the kind of play you describe, is not shedding a very good light on coh2.
28 Jun 2015, 21:03 PM
#288
avatar of Nosliw

Posts: 515

A poorly designed game would also give all factions equal power at all stages of the game, which would include giving every faction a strong MG in T1. What a boring game that would be. Wehrmacht need the MG42 to contend with allied infantry which are undoubtably the strongest early game infantry in the game. Allies don't need MGs to stop 4 volks squads. You just need everything you get early game anyway. Strong riflemen. Nades. M20. Everything they have shits on axis infantry.
28 Jun 2015, 21:11 PM
#289
avatar of ppsh41

Posts: 45

the problem is okw can still blob but not allies, what's the point? bolb is late game not early game. relic can buff rockets
28 Jun 2015, 21:24 PM
#290
avatar of daspoulos

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jun 2015, 21:11 PMppsh41
the problem is okw can still blob but not allies, what's the point? bolb is late game not early game. relic can buff rockets
Trouble with blobs? Thats a L2P issue, not a balance issue.
28 Jun 2015, 21:45 PM
#291
avatar of Spanky
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1820 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jun 2015, 18:39 PMRogers
The MG actually deals with blobs of cons, and somewhat rifles (they still have smoke) I am thankful for the new buff. It needed it to cut down on infantry spammers which were a majority of Allied players. Good change.


YES
28 Jun 2015, 22:04 PM
#292
avatar of Sierra

Posts: 432

Flank MG-> Get ready to wipe it-> Realize there is another MG covering the one you flanked -> Notice that there is also sniper who snipes your rifles :foreveralone"


Von, can you upload your 7MGs strat? :foreveralone:

It's not about how hard is to smoke. It's about how much micro and resources it requires to counter just MG, while OST can simply throw rifle nade vs 50cal.

Placing MG does not require any skills, but dealing with it with Rifles requires at least some skills, yet you cannot be sure you will flank it, since there may be another MG behind.

It's all about mortar for USF and OKW.

By the way, best HMG, best mortar, best sniper, best at gun,... What's next?


Not trying to be a dick, but you could have doctrinally and non-doctrinally scouted the area before trying to close on that MG to wipe it. Might have avoided that whole "pinned by another MG covering the first" mess that you got yourself into.
28 Jun 2015, 22:27 PM
#293
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jun 2015, 22:04 PMSierra


Not trying to be a dick, but you could have doctrinally and non-doctrinally scouted the area before trying to close on that MG to wipe it. Might have avoided that whole "pinned by another MG covering the first" mess that you got yourself into.


Not trying to be a dick but having recon throught the whole stage of the game isnt a thing.

On topic: Mg-42s are fine against Soviets as they have plenty of tool to counter them. USF suffers from the MG-42s because it shuts down T0 and T1 (with AP rounds + tellers); having zero recon and early indirect fire is the biggest setback for USF. Also the huge sight on the pios prevent most of the flanks. :P

For those who say L2P;. show us your master skill
28 Jun 2015, 22:30 PM
#294
avatar of Sierra

Posts: 432



Not trying to be a dick but having recon throught the whole stage of the game isnt a thing.

On topic: Mg-42s are fine against Soviets as they have plenty of tool to counter them. USF suffers from the MG-42s because it shuts down T0 and T1 (with AP rounds + tellers); having zero recon and early indirect fire is the biggest setback for USF. Also the huge sight on the pios prevent most of the flanks. :P

For those who say L2P;. show us your master skill


If I'm not mistake there are doctrinal abilities that increase the USF Riflemen's line of sight exponentially as well as provide flares for riflemen to use.


There's also the 0-CP Dodge WC-51 that people forgo. It may not be the hottest piece of garbage on wheels, but it is still something and can transport rifles through MG fire, and behind the thing. There's also the Greyhound which can put a hurting on MG heavy strats.
28 Jun 2015, 22:45 PM
#295
avatar of Bob Loblaw

Posts: 156

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jun 2015, 20:54 PMNosliw
A well designed RTS game will include units that punish unit blobbing and therefore poor play. Just look at starcraft. One high templar could kill 50 marines (50 min/150 gas templar vs 2500 min of marines) but no one would say templar is OP. They'd just say get good and learn to micro.


Templar come out late as fuck, are a heavy resource investment, and are risky if you don't know what you are doing.

None of that is the case with the new MG42.
28 Jun 2015, 23:04 PM
#296
avatar of Nosliw

Posts: 515



Templar come out late as fuck, are a heavy resource investment, and are risky if you don't know what you are doing.

None of that is the case with the new MG42.

Then think about banelings punishing shitty micro. Banelings require baneling nest. MG42 requires T1 building. Is that a close enough comparison for you?
28 Jun 2015, 23:08 PM
#297
avatar of sherlock
Patrion 14

Posts: 550 | Subs: 1


Remember snares don't work against full health vehicles now; so it's not hard to rush past a gren squad to get at a sniper.


An at snare does 100 damage. The critical is applied if the vehicle drops below 75% of it's health pool. The check is done after the damage of the at snare is applied. This means all light vehicles (m3, stuart, luchs, m20, scott, greyhound, su76, etc.) will receive a damaged engine with the current system.

Only mediums and heavies do not receive engine damage if they are at full health.

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jun 2015, 22:30 PMSierra

If I'm not mistake there are doctrinal abilities that increase the USF Riflemen's line of sight exponentially as well as provide flares for riflemen to use.


The doctrinal feature you're referring to is the recon package (part of the recon commander). The bonus is 20% (if I recall correctly), which isn't exponentially or any good either on a unit that doesn't have a good line of sight. The ability is also bugged as it is bound to one entity. Should that entity ever be killed the squad loses the ability indefinitely. The ability is also so restictive that it will hardly ever come into play when trying to avoid an mg since it requires:

- in cover
- not moving
- not in combat
28 Jun 2015, 23:21 PM
#298
avatar of Bob Loblaw

Posts: 156

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jun 2015, 23:04 PMNosliw

Then think about banelings punishing shitty micro. Banelings require baneling nest. MG42 requires T1 building. Is that a close enough comparison for you?


Getting there. Except catching mass banelings with a helli push into fast expand with good micro will win you the game.

As USF you don't have the equivalent of that. You get Rifles upon rifles upon rifles, yay!
28 Jun 2015, 23:24 PM
#299
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



An at snare does 100 damage. The critical is applied if the vehicle drops below 75% of it's health pool. The check is done after the damage of the at snare is applied. This means all light vehicles (m3, stuart, luchs, m20, scott, greyhound, su76, etc.) will receive a damaged engine with the current system.

Only mediums and heavies do not receive engine damage if they are at full health.


I keep forgetting that the snare change isn't exactly the one that was in the Alpha :thumbsup:
29 Jun 2015, 00:01 AM
#300
avatar of Nosliw

Posts: 515



Getting there. Except catching mass banelings with a helli push into fast expand with good micro will win you the game.

As USF you don't have the equivalent of that. You get Rifles upon rifles upon rifles, yay!

Agreed that it is shitty for Americans having only access to riflemen for the first few minutes of the game. Maybe we need to think of some new strats as a community though. Mechanized assualt for the early jeep car thingy that I never used maybe? With nades, tech to stuart, who knows what kind of stuff will work if people change their playstyles
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