Post Patch Discussion

Because the other thread is too much fuck.

What are your thoughts after actually trying the patch?

STUGS ROLL OUT

Literally outnumber Allied mediums and use CAS or something to deal with infantry.

It's nice. Only seeing Guards motor so far though. USF AB still popular too

I still see spam everywhere, my HMG34 still shit don't felt the difference...

oh.. so far only thing i like is PTRS spam don't kill my weapon team anymore which is good

in game store is missing most of the stuffs.
also i can't see faceplates in the loading screen.

I still see spam everywhere, my HMG34 still shit don't felt the difference...

oh.. so far only thing i like is PTRS spam don't kill my weapon team anymore which is good

Yep I already played a game where a Rifle blob of 4 squads moved right through my partners MG42 and my MG34 arc and only one squad got suppressed. Although a Con blob of 4 running into it did get nicely suppressed.

Do riflemen have some anti-suppression value? they literally a-moved right through our MG fields all game and the Soviet blobs would get caught right when they hit it.

Edit: Also 120MM mortars didn't squadwipe as often, but man having two on the field as still ridiculous and using the normal barrage, the mortars were still able to put a ridiculous amount of accurate fire down on our support weapons.

MGs seem really strong. Not sure if I like it, MG42 suppresses a huge area if you target vehicles now.

StuG G is awesome now. With vet 3 it becomes a monster.

MGs seem to be what MGs are really supposed to be now, attempting to stick to commanders that don't have heavies.

someone can explain about this quote

Game Data Organization Effort
Previously when we increased the lethality of infantry it was done with a blanket modifier of weapon accuracy and received accuracy. What we have done is adjusted the data so that the actual weapon stats are relative to its lethality. The performance of the unit and weapons are not changed. This is simply a data cleanup effort.
Removed accuracy weapon and receive accuracy modifiers that was used to increase infantry lethality and create a class type. Move respective values into the accuracy of the weapons and the size of the unit.

MG's are so much better. I was recently (before patch) playing Wehr on 1v1 and it was just leaving a massacre to get into another. Now I feel I have a chance of standing at least a good fight vs. US or Soviets. I know I'm not a good player, but jeez it was hard to make any win.

Soviets usually keep going Guard Motor. This is still boring as hell.

someone can explain about this quote

It's just them making the code a little more efficient and getting rid of redundancies. But it doesn't really change anything to the game as far as players are concerned.

MG's are so much better. I was recently (before patch) playing Wehr on 1v1 and it was just leaving a massacre to get into another. Now I feel I have a chance of standing at least a good fight vs. US or Soviets. I know I'm not a good player, but jeez it was hard to make any win.

Soviets usually keep going Guard Motor. This is still boring as hell.

It's about adaptation, nothing more, nothing less. Before patch hmgs kinda sucked so you should have relied on infantry blobs (including in ostheer's case) and be mobile. Now that hmgs are stealing the spotlight, you should rely on them or on infantry and HMGs together and play more statically. If you use the same tactic every patch, you will have an easy time when your usual units are buffed and a hard time when they get nurfed.

From what I have seen so far the patch seems really nice. The HMG changes are like a breath of fresh air, however, there are some issues with it.
- All HMGs have a lot of AoE suppression.. except for the maxim? Why?
- USF and OKW early game options against supported HMGs are very limited. No snipers, no (effective) mortars.
- I saw a lot of units getting suppressed even while in green cover at quite long ranges.

- All HMGs have a lot of AoE suppression.. except for the maxim? Why?

I don't have the exact quote but one of the dev's said something like "because of its quick setup and teardown time we didn't want maxim's going around quickly suppressing everything"

USF really needs another early option to combat the MGs. Grenades are pretty much a necessity right now. Considering that it is a fuel based upgrade that delays teching, I don't think that's particularly a good think.

But I think some of us know relic already has a plan for that.

someone can explain about this quote

the data tidy up relates to incorporating global modifiers into the actual unit/weapon stats. Some previous patch changes such as increasing the lethality of infantry or the received accuracy of weapons teams (so they died easier) was achieved by applying a 1.2 modifer to unit accuracy and a 1.25 to received accuracy when calculating hits rather than the actual unit values changing. This patch has removed the modifiers and changed all the individual unit values instead.

gameplay wise it has zero effect but it will help making and understand individual unit tweaks easier in future and make user wiki's for units / damage a bit clearer as the stats you see are not subject to additional hidden modifiers.

So I've got three 5% suppression bonuses for a Maxim. If I equip all three of these would the Maxim now effectively have the same buff the other HMGs got?

From what I have seen so far the patch seems really nice. The HMG changes are like a breath of fresh air, however, there are some issues with it.
- All HMGs have a lot of AoE suppression.. except for the maxim? Why?
- USF and OKW early game options against supported HMGs are very limited. No snipers, no (effective) mortars.
- I saw a lot of units getting suppressed even while in green cover at quite long ranges.

Remember the days of maxim spam? Id guess thats why. Sure, one could say now that the mg42 is pretty much back to beta/release state except for the light speed traverse value. But then youd also have to see that it is alot easier for soviets to get rid of an mg42 or 2 than it is for the germans to counter maxim spam. Not saying it is easy or it should be easy for either faction. Though when you look at the grand picture, its alot harder to push a maxim off the field with a german sniper than it is to push an mg42 off with a russian sniper, especially in light of the recent m5 halftrack changes. Add to that smaller german squad sizes and the fact that maxims deal more damage on long range than the mg42(if I didnt get shit mixed up) and there you pretty much have it.

The thing is, as the russians you can counter an mg42 with pretty much every tier. Youve got snipers and clown cars(and against ppl with really shitty micro satchels) in tier 1. Then theres mortars and the at gun barrage in t2, plus the fact that you can soft counter an mg42 with a maxim, unless you stand in no cover and the mg42 is in green cover. Conscript spam is gonna be pretty hard to pull off, but unless you try to cross a bridge it should be managable to swarm the mg if you spread out enough. Add to that the shock smoke nade which will probably be seen alot more this patch than it has last patch and boom, lots and lots of counters.

Compare that to the german options. Setting up an mg42 infront of a maxim doesnt work, unlike the other way around. German mortars are very viable but you always have to be careful because of the setup time of maxims. Youll constantly have to reposition your mortar IF you get pushed off, cause otherwise youll see it in russian hands 5secs later. Snipers are nice too and while they are very good and after the buff they received a while ago definitely to be feared, theyre just as viable vs maxims and soviet snipers are vs mg42s because you constantly have to watch and micro them. Additionally youll have to account for 2 more models. One could try a t2 rush into 222 and pray it works. If the soviet player has a maxim behind the first maxim, youll probably have to back off. If there are conscripts close to the maxim youll have to back off and dont forget the 222 gets countered by the tier that allows you to build the maxim in the first place. That leaves you with grens and while I agree that vet2 gren riflenades are absolute horseshit, this will hopefully get fixed in the near future by cutting nade range in half once youre suppressed(one can always pray to rngsus).

The 50cal should be in a good spot. Similar setup to mg42 and only 4 men. Makes it very vulnerable to snipers, which are already effective against usf as is. Then theres the 222 rush that actually works against it and as with the maxim, you can avoid its cone by more or less just walking around it. And yeah, riflenades. But I already touched on that subject. USF should have no issue with the current mg meta since they have smoke nades on their basic infantry squad. So unless you blob all your shit together and manage to get suppressed in the first second of the engagement, you can always smoke and then run straight at the mg and/or nade it in the face or push it off with sheer early game dps.

Comparing those 3 mgs pretty much shows the maxim would clearly come out on top by far if youd give it aoe suppression. Not so much because of actual performance(since all mgs are more or less comparable when it comes to performance outside of aoe suppression) but because of the sheer amount of counters they got readily available vs enemy mgs vs enemy counters vs maxims. Add on top of that the(after countless nerfs only slightly) faster setup and pack up time of the maxim and youll have a clear winner that would be batshit op and clearly overperforming for its price.

Now, Im not trying to start an mg war like it has happened my times before. Im actually quite glad ppl stopped complaining about maxims and mg42s for the most part. Just trying to find a reason why they couldve not given it the aoe suppression bonus the other mgs received. If youve got a different idea, Id be interested to hear it.

Also, I think the maxim would be in a pretty dandy position right now, were it not for vet2 gren riflenades. Once they get fixed, I think itll be perfectly alright. Maybe they could also try to make it not clump up as much as it currently does. Guess thats its biggest weakpoint vs rifle nades and mortars atm.

In case anyone was wondering - I didnt mention the mg34 anywhere in the comparison above because I havent touched either the mg34 nor okw in a pretty long time. I have no fucking clue how it performs atm. Though I heard from others it was pretty shit last patch.

So I've got three 5% suppression bonuses for a Maxim. If I equip all three of these would the Maxim now effectively have the same buff the other HMGs got?

The other mgs got an aoe suppression buff. Meaning they suppress faster the more models run around in a certain vicinity around where their bullets hit. The maxim doesnt have any aoe to begin with. So while it would probably buff the maxim vs a single squad by a fair bit, the outcome vs a blob would be the same as right now -> run and pray to jesus the gunner doesnt get shot on retreat.

How come my maxim aint supressing blobs, meanwhile mg42 counters them just fine...