Remove forward retreat points

Fellow members of coh2.org,

I would like to talk about forward retreat points.
In my opinion forward retreat points are potentially gamebreaking because they will deliver some important advantages to the players especially in teamgames (my thoughts are based on 2v2 and 2v2+ games). There are many reasons why forward retreat points lead to asymmetrical gameplay and blobbing.

1. Not every faction has the option to set up a forward retreat point
Soviets and the Ostheer dont have the possibility to set up a forward retreat point which leads to asymetrical gameplay if playing against OKW or USF.
At least all factions should have some kind of forward retreat - or remove it from every faction.
(Ostheer Command Bunker upgrade?)

2. Running towards a MG with your blob - got pinned? Dont worry just retreat to the next forward retreat point and attack again!
Forward retreat points encourage blobbing and running into MG positions again and again. Running into a MG with all units should be punished with a full retreat in the base not to the next forward retreat point (especially USF blobs - saw that many times in 2v2 games)
Although the units are very vulnerable at the forward retreat point its advantages are too vast.

3. Soft retreat instead of retreating to forward retreat point.
Im fine with reinforcing at halftracks or at the medic HQ it is a strategical investment and ensures constant pressure on the enemy... halftracks are very vulnerable and you cant use them as a forward retreat point if you have some troubles at the frontline... you have to do a soft retreat with injured squads (risk of squad wipe) or they will retreat to base which costs some time.

What do you think about it? let me know

Cheers

I agree, but it's in the game and there is no chance Relic will take it out. Best to work on using better counters to it at this point, as there are many.

It should be removed from USF and OKW or Relic should give it to OST and SU. Simple. Maps like Rails and Steel (and of course most 4v4) with ling retreat paths are highly unbalanced with Mjr/Med truck.

YES, I 1000% agree with this, no army should be able to retreat on the front lines. Come the British when they change all the fuel, like major to 135 fuel. ONLY the OKW will have forward HQ giving them huge advantage over all armies for most of the game. They should have never brought that into coh2 from one. EVERYONE hated the british truck design from the first game that broke it so what does relic do???? bring back the damn trucks and forward retreat point.....

I wonder what the odds are for brits getting another FRP (or multiple), maybe you'll have something to look forward to OP

I like them and they won't be removed - no chance.
OST/SOV just need one.

I like them and they won't be removed - no chance.
OST/SOV just need one.

Yeah. The only realistic thing that could happen is that Ost and Soviets gain their own retreat points in some way.

You want a soviet forward retreat point?

yes please.

You want a soviet forward retreat point?

The Soviet Union's problem with their summary execution of retreaters was that they used entire detachments instead of just one hard bastard, of course.

You want a soviet forward retreat point?

the irony here is that in dow2 execution ACTS as a forward retreat point by stopping the retreat.

I feel like FRPs add more to the game than they take away. Setting one up can leave you vulnerable if you retreat many forces at once, and they're easy targets for artillery too. Ever try throwing a nade right on the FRP when OKW tries retreating to defend it?

I'd far rather that FRPs were added in for every army than for them to disappear entirely. An OH bunker upgrade makes sense, and as for SU... maybe an ambient building upgrade that isn't FHQ?

Forward retreat point is not a problem in my opinion. Each faction has hard counters to punish mass retreats, either by capping the whole map or by indirectly firing at the retreat point.

If you constantly keep getting overwhelmed by mass infantry that keeps retreating to the front line retreat point, then you have tactical issues you need to address.

It is a problem, why? Example:

Let's say Vielsam (huge retreat path). OKW blob got under MG fire. But that's not the problem, I can retreat at approach again.
OST blob got under the fire. I must retreat which means 2-3mins for my enemy to dig down his troops.
In perfect world, none should blob so hard to get all unit under the fire, and OST playet must take in into account that it's risky, so maybe it's better to make tactical movements than just blob, but OKW? Garden this, blob all day long since I have retreat point near.

It's highly unfair, promote mindless blobbing which is not punished like for OST.

Same about Rifles. Might flamer blob. Blob blob blob, burn everything and reater to Mjr. If flamer blob sees Ostwind - insta reater to Mjr - not punishing because you can go back in 30secs; if Grens blob sees something scary, retreat to the base - I blobbed, I overrun my blob and I should get punishment for that mass retreat which is retreating to the base.

It's not like it's also easy to punish.
Stuka is ultimate punisher, Katy, or ML-20 yet it's doctrinal, but USF and OST lack of such units/abilities. Of course, there are air abilities but let's be honest, red flares at retreat point? Everyone will dodge it.

I'm all for removing this stupid, promoting blobbing feature.

They shouldn't be removed, that would take away from the game. Instead, give FRPs to Sov and Ost. I bet the new 'mystery' faction will have FRPs by default anyways.

Removing the feature is the worse of your 2 suggestions, yet you put only that in the title. Your other suggestion (adding FRPs to Sov+Ost) IMO is clearly preferable.

I like them and they won't be removed - no chance.
OST/SOV just need one.

I don't understand this " if they have we should have too " thinking .. then give all armies the same units and same abilities and we shall all get bored to death every game I have no problem using soft retreat with a HT as whehr or converted foward HQ/ HT or merge ability of the sov + forward retreat points have weaknesses OKW one is an artillery magnet and US ambulance + major can be easily flanked or wiped with stuka dive,arty or mortars etc..

I would love to see a removal of the FRPs aswell. Playing carelessly like running with your blob should be punished as hard as possible. There is a reason the retreat mechanic exists in the game to preserve units. It shouldn't be just a "get out of jail card - brb in 30 secs".

Forward retreat points that are too strong (OKW cannon-truck next to other trucks?) are a bummer that encourage blobbing and turtling and discourage flanking and cut-off maneuvers. I too would like to see less of this.

Yep, FRP eliminates strategic play, rewards blobing and gives free map control. Lost engagement? Np, with FRP your squads would be back in action in seconds. Suppressed? Same. Successful push or flank forced all your AT off the field? Those tanks better hurry up if they want inflict any damage to that flak truck near med HQ.

Other solution is to increase counters to forward retreats. Sadly, Relic decide to go other way and remove precision stike from kat this patch.

Both frp have drawbacks, usf needs to go back to base for inf.weapons (bar, m1919, bazooka) and okw frp is a realy big investment, a nice target + if you loose it you can´t produce jp4 anymore.
I have realy mixed experiences, sometimes it sure is annoying, sometimes if you destroy the okw frp it´s pretty much gg.

Usf frp on the other hand can be moved and is pretty cheap, so even if you loose your frp it doesn´t matter so much, but because you can move it, it´s realy hard to loose it anyway.