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Stug G vs. Soviet and Allied armor

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ElSlayer
30 Jun 2015, 21:09 PM
#141
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jun 2015, 20:57 PM__deleted__
Lol at people who think capture point is useless...its really not. Won me so many games. If TWP goes, and I think it should on the StuG, HE shells or focused sight would be a good alternative.

1) I'm sure TWP will win much MUCH MORE games in next few months than capture point ever won.
2) StuG with HE shells is StuG E.
3) Focused sight is bad designed ability and also should be removed from SU-85, ISU, Ele and others IMO. It somewhat kills combined arms approach.
4) If capture point is so good and game winning, why you suggest HE shells? :facepalm:
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Alexzandvar
30 Jun 2015, 21:18 PM
#142
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The ability for it to shoot through shot blockers (even if was just a single use ability) would be broken on so many different levels.

Just give it a Vet 1 barrage, mirror it to the SU-76 barrage if you want. The fact of the matter remains that:

1. TWP is very abusable
2. Negates good medium armor play
3. The SU-76 barrage is by no means OP

From those points I conclude that Vet 1 for the StuG III Ausf G being a bombardment would not be OP.
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QueenRatchet123
30 Jun 2015, 21:25 PM
#143
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jun 2015, 21:18 PMAlexzandvar
The ability for it to shoot through shot blockers (even if was just a single use ability) would be broken on so many different levels.

Just give it a Vet 1 barrage, mirror it to the SU-76 barrage if you want. The fact of the matter remains that:

1. TWP is very abusable
2. Negates good medium armor play
3. The SU-76 barrage is by no means OP

From those points I conclude that Vet 1 for the StuG III Ausf G being a bombardment would not be OP.


NO

Ostwind is your AI

su76 is in a tier with no dedicated ai tank
jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2015, 14:01 PMJohnnyB

There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
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__deleted__
30 Jun 2015, 21:29 PM
#144
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Posts: 1225

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jun 2015, 21:09 PMElSlayer

1) I'm sure TWP will win much MUCH MORE games in next few months than capture point ever won.
2) StuG with HE shells is StuG E.
3) Focused sight is bad designed ability and also should be removed from SU-85, ISU, Ele and others IMO. It somewhat kills combined arms approach.
4) If capture point is so good and game winning, why you suggest HE shells? :facepalm:

I think you've entirely misunderstood my points.
1. Very likely, did I actually dispute that? Where is the contradiction anyways?
2. StuG-E is doctrinal and has obvious limitations. (and TWP as a vet ability, lol.)
3. Disagree, makes obvious sense on TDs.
4. Capture point is good, never said it was game winning, TWP is obviously stronger, especially since unlike ie. the T34, the StuG is a dedicated AT unit but not at all suited to be sitting out by itself at some peripheral VP with guns disabled where it can be bumrushed and circlestrafed. Does not make any sense for that unit.
Why do I suggest HE? Because A: It makes sense to add some AI capability for that unit. B: It appears balanced.
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Alexzandvar
30 Jun 2015, 21:41 PM
#145
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jun 2015, 21:25 PMQueenRatchet123


NO

Ostwind is your AI

su76 is in a tier with no dedicated ai tank


What is a Katyusha? Dedicated anti tank :snfPeter: ?
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Vuther
30 Jun 2015, 21:45 PM
#146
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Let's just nerf all TWPs back to the Pak 40's attacking a point on the ground instead of the target. I thought that was actually a pretty good way to make such a potentially powerful ability have some counterplay and make said potentially powerful ability require a bit more micro, setting up, and prediction to pull off.

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jun 2015, 21:41 PMAlexzandvar


What is a Katyusha? Dedicated anti tank :snfPeter: ?

Ratchet worded it as "dedicated ai tank", which leads me to think they refer to something like "vehicle immune to small arms made to engage and pressure infantry from the frontline".
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Alexzandvar
30 Jun 2015, 21:52 PM
#147
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I still don't see how the Ostwind existence makes it illegal for other things in it's tier to have AI power, considering that a barrage would be more about digging the enemy out of fortified positions which the Ostwind isn't for.
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AchtAchter
30 Jun 2015, 22:04 PM
#148
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After playing a lot of games with the new stug I have to admit TWP is the problem and not the stug itself.

I also think HE shells are a bad idea, due the fact the Stug is now an AT specialist and giving it HE shells in an ISU way, would it make it a generalist unit and you wouldn't have reason to use Ostwinds or P4 - it would lead to spam and less combined arms. In addition its frustrating to have your infantry sniped by tanks in the fog of war.

In my opinion, the ability 'take aim' of the 57mm At gun would fit perfectly on the stug with following effects:

- smaller arc of fire
- slower move speed
- focus sight
- +10 range

The ability should come with a cooldown timer, so you can't instantly switch it on and off. This would provide counterplay via flanking, yet underline its role as AT specialist.
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BeefSurge
30 Jun 2015, 22:50 PM
#149
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Posts: 1891

The King Tiger ability would be good on the Stug too. I'm not joking, anybody know the name?
The Fascisti Will Pay.
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__deleted__
30 Jun 2015, 22:53 PM
#150
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Posts: 1225

After playing a few games with Ostheer again, StuG-G and Ostheer need all the cheese you can get. You have just so many autoloss maps, its not even funny. TWP needs to stay.
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G4bb4_G4nd4lf
30 Jun 2015, 22:54 PM
#151
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jun 2015, 22:50 PMBeefSurge
The King Tiger ability would be good on the Stug too. I'm not joking, anybody know the name?


It's called "Spearhead". I don't know the exact bonuses tho.
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Alexzandvar
30 Jun 2015, 23:03 PM
#152
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jun 2015, 22:50 PMBeefSurge
The King Tiger ability would be good on the Stug too. I'm not joking, anybody know the name?


It locks the turret to only being able to rotate 90 degrees in front of the tank (so it can't shoot behind itself) and reduces essentially everything people like about the KT damage, scatter, AoE, ect in return for RoF.

It wouldn't make any sense on the StuG III for obvious reasons.
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AchtAchter
30 Jun 2015, 23:07 PM
#153
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jun 2015, 22:50 PMBeefSurge
The King Tiger ability would be good on the Stug too. I'm not joking, anybody know the name?


Spearhead is probably the worst vet ability that was added with WFA. You probably don't even know what it does, otherwise you wouldn't propose it. The Stug has not even a turret so it cant even utilize it.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu

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CookiezNcreem
30 Jun 2015, 23:10 PM
#154
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jun 2015, 23:07 PMAchtAchter


Spearhead is probably the worst vet ability that was added with WFA. You probably don't even know what it does, otherwise you wouldn't propose it. The Stug has not even a turret so it cant even utilize it.



I think he's saying that if the stug could be hulled-down as a vet 1 ability.

STUG's spearheading assaults would make imperialdane roll over in his sleep.
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__deleted__
30 Jun 2015, 23:23 PM
#155
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Posts: 1225

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jun 2015, 23:10 PMCookiezNcreem



I think he's saying that if the stug could be hulled-down as a vet 1 ability.

STUG's spearheading assaults would make imperialdane roll over in his sleep.

Nah, I dont think he means that. In any case, hull down on an assault gun...useless.
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Jadame!
30 Jun 2015, 23:31 PM
#156
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Posts: 1122

Make it 60 range remove twp and balance other stats if needed.

Wehr have too many stun abilities. Using ta at gun and stug they can stun every tank in game to death.
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BeefSurge
30 Jun 2015, 23:32 PM
#157
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Posts: 1891

I mean an "over watch ability" that restricts movement and boosts rate of fire.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
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CookiezNcreem
30 Jun 2015, 23:49 PM
#158
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jun 2015, 23:32 PMBeefSurge
I mean an "over watch ability" that restricts movement and boosts rate of fire.





so.....hull down? :foreveralone:
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braciszek
30 Jun 2015, 23:55 PM
#159
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Posts: 2053

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jun 2015, 23:03 PMAlexzandvar


It locks the turret to only being able to rotate 90 degrees in front of the tank (so it can't shoot behind itself) and reduces essentially everything people like about the KT damage, scatter, AoE, ect in return for RoF.

It wouldn't make any sense on the StuG III for obvious reasons.


It reduces nothing but turret rotation for sight and "tracking". Damage is same, AoE and scatter seemingly same as squads seem to die as normal to it, so i noticed zero difference. It wouldnt be worth mentioning if there was one anyway. Perhaps its vet 2 buffs doing their thing or something...

RoF isnt different either. Testing this, i realized that with vet, the MG on the KT allows it to suppress squads. Though KT needs to kill 3 armies by itself in order to get that much xp... No wonder i didnt know it did that.

And at vet 4 with spearhead activated, KT has ele/ISU telescopic sight. Fat chance getting a Kt that far, though.
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braciszek
1 Jul 2015, 00:13 AM
#160
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Posts: 2053

Actually, the "Spearhead" buffs are something that would not be bad on the Stug. Presumably improved ability to hit tanks and able to spot for itself is something i would like. I guess 10 extra range, but making the ability defensive by reducing Stug mobility? Imagine putting spotting scopes on that...
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