Patch notes for 23rd June

next patch coming in another 3 months? Kappa

Not so fast, please! Keepo.

Ciez, I really respect you, but please stop talking like you know things better than anyone else.

We all know that Call-in meta has been the biggest issue and concern of the community, most importantly the 85s meta. and almost everyone knows how it was addressed in Alpha, which relic decided not to release that! This issue is possibly the biggest reason why most people are not pleased with things.

And I'm sure everyone noticed all the changes you mentioned, yet they are not going to address the issue which UNFAIRLY dominates (specially 1s and 2s) games.

Hope you don't get offended, I just disagree with you in that.

I'd never be offended by someone respectfully disagreeing with me, as you did. You're as entitled to your opinion as I am mine, and it's nice that you approached it in this manner rather than straight flaming as other community members have been doing in this thread.

I understand the frustration of not having all the changes hit, but I'm also excited that they're on the way. Even with 85s not being addressed this patch contains so many awesome changes yet people were acting like its the most useless patch ever, when it's actually awesome.

Never meant to sound like I knew everything better than everyone else, sorry if that's the way I came off. But I do know that the new stug g is going to give 85s a lot of trouble.

What I don't get is that they keep us waiting months after months after months for small changes that they implement like once every 3-6 months. Why not wait 6 months, in the meanwhile alpha test the shit out of everything you want to implement, get feedback, tweak it, IMPLEMENT EVERYTHING AT ONCE and then use small patches every 2 to 4 weeks, according to feedback, to smoothen things out.

If the next patch will take another 3 months, you can expect another decrease in player base. Their decissions are so illogical , it makes me cringe xd

We'll see how it plays out. After removing constant mortar wipes, flame crits, is2/tiger spam, gg plane crash etc, perhaps people will be in a better state of mind to even enjoy playing the call-in game.

Also the MG changes sound ideal, at least in principle:

JLee (official forums) wrote:
Incremental accuracy is a value that changes the accuracy of the weapon based on the number of entities in the search radius. So by increasing this value, HMGS will be be more accurate vs bigger squads than smaller squads. It also means the weapon accuracy will shoot up much higher if its aiming at a blob of infantry.

Strengthening the MG all-round would lead to negative gameplay experience, but changes like this primarily increase the risk of not controlling squads individually. I think everyone welcomes more correlation between micro effort and combat effectiveness. It's also intuitive that more men are harder to miss.

I'd never be offended by someone respectfully disagreeing with me, as you did. You're as entitled to your opinion as I am mine, and it's nice that you approached it in this manner rather than straight flaming as other community members have been doing in this thread.

I understand the frustration of not having all the changes hit, but I'm also excited that they're on the way. Even with 85s not being addressed this patch contains so many awesome changes yet people were acting like its the most useless patch ever, when it's actually awesome.

Never meant to sound like I knew everything better than everyone else, sorry if that's the way I came off. But I do know that the new stug g is going to give 85s a lot of trouble.

I respectfully disagree with you as well. Instead of hampering the biggest problem, 85 meta, they buffed it by reducing heavy tank quantity. Sure they buffed the stug g, but it still has no turret, not enough sight and will get swarmed by 85s.

From what I've heard, the alpha had an almost fixed game, broken gampelay and exploits were gone, teching was now needed to get call ins. The changes we get now, are part of that 'total fix', the only problem is, we get parts of the total fix, but not the total fix. It is another let down, one that is supported by many many many letdowns. I understand that you are excited by the changes, they are certainly good, but they don't change the abuse the axis players are going through and don't change the dull gameplay you face against almost all soviet players.

Again, no offense, but I think you don't seem to get your head around the fact that again, the game has not been fixed, only slightly. A step in the good direction is nice indeed, but we have been taking steps for about 2 years now. Where are we heading, how many more steps must we take before we finally arrive where we need to? More frustrating than that, they have the final destination, fixed and well at their disposal, yet they don't give it to us. I don't care how you look at it, that is just plain stupid, horribly wrong and screams of incompetence.

If they wanted to force people to use medium tanks rather than just sit and wait for the heavy call-in tanks, why not increase the CP of heavy tanks and forced to tech t3 or t4 to get them?

I don't get it.

"The abuse axis players are facing". All players are facing abusive annoying strats. You think team games with CAS are fun? Or P47's? That's why they are doing something to make it a good idea to shoot the planes down, instead of the fear of where the plane crashing is going to defeat the purpose of havng shot it down by ploughing into some critical unit. Everyone does need to calm down, mainly as there is little we can do now, play, it will still be better than nothing having changed at at all and that's where Ciez has some solid grounding. We're 500 posts in I'm sure as much as they don't show their faces anymore that relic is fully aware of the disappointment felt by the dedicated community, but please can we think of how mad people would be if the only patch note was "Jazz hands!"

Yes there's more to come, but a lot of that needed more testing.

Let's imagine for a minute that Relic, at the last minute, decided to make sweeping changes to how a faction plays. They release it only lightly tested. Now what if said faction is super broken, or super weak? People would just cry about how Relic never tests any changes before throwing them to live.

Thank you for saying this. People need to realize Relic cannot implement huge changes in a faction without testing for months. I don't want to play a faction where the new changes are implemented so quickly that it would require 6+ patches to fix (ea OKW).

We're 500 posts in I'm sure as much as they don't show their faces anymore that relic is fully aware of the disappointment felt by the dedicated community, but please can we think of how mad people would be if the only patch note was "Jazz hands!"

I would say that this is the issue that is the cause of actual disappointment:

Show Spoiler

Relic simply believes we can't take all the changes at once.
They want to flip the game upside down and make it into something awesome, but we can't have it, because apparently we're too stupid to relearn it all at once.

Wall of text

Nobody has made the claim that Allied players don't have to fight abusive strats, but the reason you see a lot of good player upset about Guard Motor going totally untouched is because it's a huge headache to play against because it's stupid easy to use allowing unskilled players to punch waaaay above their rank.

To knock down Tiger spam abuse, and IS2 spam abuse (call in meta essentially) but totally fail to address "call in meta" the commander is kinda stupid. The 120 nerf is fairly easily compensated for with how much cheaper it became and the fact it will still wipe slightly damaged squads pretty reliably.

I would say that this is the issue that is the cause of actual disappointment:

Show Spoiler

Relic simply believes we can't take all the changes at once.
They want to flip the game upside down and make it into something awesome, but we can't have it, because apparently we're too stupid to relearn it all at once.

Do keep in mind the majority of CoH2 players are casual 4v4 players and limiting heavies to only 1 DRASTICALLY changes the way that format plays. While the more competitive players might be able to easily transition to a lot of new changes(especially those in the alpha of actually played with them), do remember the majority of CoH2 players haven't played with the changes at all.

Do keep in mind the majority of CoH2 players are casual 4v4 players and limiting heavies to only 1 DRASTICALLY changes the way that format plays. While the more competitive players might be able to easily transition to a lot of new changes(especially those in the alpha of actually played with them), do remember the majority of CoH2 players haven't played with the changes at all.

Believe me, the incoming changes are severe enough, that if relic doesn't plan on implementing them for the next 2 years, it WILL be a huge shock to the players and limiting heavies is rather a minor inconvenience in comparison to what is to come.

Building splats are still visible through fog of war. #justrelicpriorities

"The abuse axis players are facing". All players are facing abusive annoying strats. You think team games with CAS are fun? Or P47's? "

Yes yes, but do you see CAS every game? No you don't. Do you see t34-85s 90% of the times you face a soviet player, yes. Every faction suffers, but axis suffer the most with the horrible t34-85 spam.

I am not a axis fanboy (I know you will call me that next), I must confess that I use Guard Motor myself as well. Just when I want an easy mode game without any kind of skill involved

What I don't get is that they keep us waiting months after months after months for small changes that they implement like once every 3-6 months. Why not wait 6 months, in the meanwhile alpha test the shit out of everything you want to implement, get feedback, tweak it, IMPLEMENT EVERYTHING AT ONCE and then use small patches every 2 to 4 weeks, according to feedback, to smoothen things out.

Because unfortunately, software/game development does not work that way. Trust me. And with my experience in dealing with software development cycles, there is never a right way. Do it all at once, half the community complain, do it in dribs and drabs and the other half complain. Its a tough call, and you can never please everyone 100%. Personally, I think the whole situation is made a little worse by the fact Relic have internal procedures (Like NDA) holding them back significantly. I am not going to go into a detailed explanation of this, as some of it would be speculation, but really, for them to improve its going to take their own management to changes their ways - which is probably not going to happen.

If the next patch will take another 3 months, you can expect another decrease in player base. Their decissions are so illogical , it makes me cringe xd

Also agreed, but we have to try and be diplomatic. As I said above, it can sometimes be a loose loose decision for the developer.

Because unfortunately, software/game development does not work that way. Trust me. And with my experience in dealing with software development cycles, there is never a right way. Do it all at once, half the community complain, do it in dribs and drabs and the other half complain. Its a tough call, and you can never please everyone 100%. Personally, I think the whole situation is made a little worse by the fact Relic have internal procedures (Like NDA) holding them back significantly. I am not going to go into a detailed explanation of this, as some of it would be speculation, but really, for them to improve its going to take their own management to changes their ways - which is probably not going to happen.



Also agreed, but we have to try and be diplomatic. As I said above, it can sometimes be a loose loose decision for the developer.

I understand your points, yet they made very larg game changing alterations in patches before. And yeah, like you said, the NDA hinders them more than it gives them any profitable sitaution when you consider freedom, time and possibilities. Why would they use it? Purely due to Sega?

Why would they use it? Purely due to Sega?

Honestly, I don't know. They should be using every available opportunity to hype and sell the game - if you market anything well, it will sell well, even if its complete crap. Im not saying CoH2 is crap, but I'm saying, if they did better marketing then they'd sell more units, and the NDA directly inhibits this. It could be down to Sega, but I think this kind of thing has been in the companies DNA before the sega acquisition and probably comes from internal management. I can see why they would want to be a little secretive, showing something in Alpha or even Beta then getting uproar from the community when it gets removed creates another nightmare in itself. But thats down to them not sticking to their guns and being indecisive really.

In my eyes, do a private "public" beta when you have decided what units, abilities are going to be in the patch, then use the beta to test the balance etc, only remove something if it causes stability issues or was a serious mistake. This would tackle the one step forward, two steps back problem we face at the moment.

Personally, I think a lot of the problem related to balance is the fact that there isn't enough unit choice with the armies, there should be a lot more core units to entice different play styles. There shouldn't be only one counter to unit X.

I think the most impactful change that no one is talking about is the change to AT nades and Faust engine damage mechanics. It's a huge indirect buff to mediums and should allow players who tech mediums to punish people trying to stall for call ins since the mediums can be a lot more aggressive against defensive AT gun play.

What happened to the tech tree changes from alpha??? I'm really really disappointed about that. Those were the most exciting balance changes

from devs:

That's all planned for the next patch. We really wanted to look at addressing 4 things this patch before we move units around because we wanted to to apply the tech tree adjustment with a better and more solid foundation.


*Continue to evaluate and reduce the amount of frustrating RNG

*Address some components of infantry blobbing issue

*Attempt at making less desirable core tech tree units more desirable

*Promote and Encourage Combined Arms.

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/company-of-heroes-2-general-discussion/179157-june-23rd-patch-notes-official-feedback-thread/page9

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