Is it just me or are the Allies too spam heavy lately...

Are you all aware that the game is designed for Allies early game micro advantage vs Axis late game micro advantage? It doesn't sound like you are. Yes the early game is slightly easier for Allies but you all are acting like there are no counters at all.

tools to survive the early game against con-rifle spam= Scout cars, good mg placement, flame pios to deny charges, snipers, halftracks to support pushes, spam swagstruppen, Panzergrens to deny charges, s-mines, good gren micro. You all make it sound like the toolbox is empty when in reality it just takes some extra effort.

Plus you all know once LMGs hit the field grens become beasts for just 240 mp and 60 muni but that part is conveniently left out.

Guy who says Axis needs to tech like crazy probably doesn't have the Mech Assault commander.

What exactly is an infantry rush OP? You get the same amount of resources as the allied player so he shouldn't have more squads than you or you are floating manpower or messing up somewhere. Just spam Ostruppen right back at him and dodge molotovs and win, yay!

I think the problem Ostheer has against the USFs in 1v1s is that they require combined arms to defeat the more mobile US army. Rifles are excellent for capping the map while also fighting infantry and with zooks, tanks as well. The ostheer player can't control much of the map because it can't have mg 42s with infantry support and AT support everywhere at once. At the same time, one wrong move from the ostheer player can mean the game for him whereas for the US, they make a wrong move and can easily retreat before they lose any full squads. It not that the two armies are that unbalanced atm its just that ostheer needs to play a perfect game in order to win while the USFs can easily recover from their mistakes. I think this is mainly due to Ostheers reliance on support weapons that get decrewed and taken by the enemy for essentially free (just reinforcement costs). Anouther problem Ostheer has is RECREWING their lost support weapons. If they lose 1 man then they cant recrew the weapon without losing the whole squad.
That is why the Halftrack for ostheer is so vital. Without it you will have a hard time recrewing weapons on the field.

Mess up a rifle squad and then put a flame pio on their retreat path.

Also it is easier for Axis squads to retreat than Allied squads. Allied squads have to get in close to do damage and Axis squads are more accurate at long range. So if an allied squad gets in close and gets in trouble it has to retreat a lot farther from the axis squad through more accurate fire. Whereas the Axis squad is taking less accurate fire once its last model gets to mid-long range. The only exception are Pathfinders who are good at ganking retreating squads.

Mess up a rifle squad and then put a flame pio on their retreat path.

Also it is easier for Axis squads to retreat than Allied squads. Allied squads have to get in close to do damage and Axis squads are more accurate at long range. So if an allied squad gets in close and gets in trouble it has to retreat a lot farther from the axis squad through more accurate fire. Whereas the Axis squad is taking less accurate fire once its last model gets to mid-long range. The only exception are Pathfinders who are good at ganking retreating squads.

The difference in retreat paths you are talking about actually works alot different than you think. The axis infantry typically need to be standing still do deal decent damage but the allies don't. Best example of this is the American BARS compared to LMG42s. The rifles can walk beside the retreating squads and easily wipe them while the grens and volks grens cant.

Are you all aware that the game is designed for Allies early game micro advantage vs Axis late game micro advantage? It doesn't sound like you are. Yes the early game is slightly easier for Allies but you all are acting like there are no counters at all.

tools to survive the early game against con-rifle spam= Scout cars, good mg placement, flame pios to deny charges, snipers, halftracks to support pushes, spam swagstruppen, Panzergrens to deny charges, s-mines, good gren micro. You all make it sound like the toolbox is empty when in reality it just takes some extra effort.

Plus you all know once LMGs hit the field grens become beasts for just 240 mp and 60 muni but that part is conveniently left out.

Guy who says Axis needs to tech like crazy probably doesn't have the Mech Assault commander.

What exactly is an infantry rush OP? You get the same amount of resources as the allied player so he shouldn't have more squads than you or you are floating manpower or messing up somewhere. Just spam Ostruppen right back at him and dodge molotovs and win, yay!

Late game advantage? You can't be serious. Current Soviet meta disagree with you. USF have the p4p TD Jackson now.

The reason Riflemen>Grens is the fifth Riflemen. One sniper shot turns the engagement in your favor. Gren, Gren, Gren, Sniper, Gren. Hug green cover, beeline LMG42 and build a Scout Car to counter the M20 coming for your Sniper. If you can't do this, l2p.

Tiger sniped by Jackson? Poor play. Jack sons paper armor and no smoke mean it can't pursue to finish off armor. If you played USF you would realize that Jackson only beats Tiger if the army supporting Tiger retreats it isn't there.

@QueenRatchet, thanks. Playing 200> ranked 1 vs 1 as USF really lets me cut through Axis fanboy nonsense. I don't mind Axis fans though, as long as they don't suck.

Rifle company messes up your theory. Nonetheless you're right. I'll play combined arms and manage 4 different units while you spam rifles. gg

The difference in retreat paths you are talking about actually works alot different than you think. The axis infantry typically need to be standing still do deal decent damage but the allies don't. Best example of this is the American BARS compared to LMG42s. The rifles can walk beside the retreating squads and easily wipe them while the grens and volks grens cant.

Accuracy matters a lot against retreating units and while Allied accuracy on the move isn't bad it isn't going to gank a squad that will be out of close range in 1 second thanks to the speed of retreat. Now if an Axis player gets outmaneuvered and the allied squad is sitting on their retreat path that is the axis players fault for exposing their troops to that much accurate close range fire and path blocking, I have no sympathy for that.

The STG 44 units are super accurate close to medium range even against retreating squads and can fire on the move.

Late game advantage? You can't be serious. Current Soviet meta disagree with you. USF have the p4p TD Jackson now.

Jacksons are very easy to destroy and PaKs are awesome. Dual PaKs haven't gone out of style yet. Tiger's wreck infantry and Panther's are easy to keep alive especially when supported.

I don't like Guard Rifle because of the OP heavy mortar and Guards sniping infantry which put Axis too far back for the late game but if those units were fixed things would be better.

Rifle company doesn't have Paratroopers, Bulldozer, M1919, or Forward Observers. If an opponent spams Riflemen bleed him. Mortars, Snipers, Grens taking potshots. Most Rifle Company players go Captain, for AT guns. They also skip Major for faster EZ8. This means no USF light vehicles. And later armor. And you know what that means? German sniper can Murder Death Kill everything. He can also spot for your Paks with the vet he will have from murdering Riflemen.

Accuracy matters a lot against retreating units and while Allied accuracy on the move isn't bad it isn't going to gank a squad that will be out of close range in 1 second thanks to the speed of retreat. Now if an Axis player gets outmaneuvered and the allied squad is sitting on their retreat path that is the axis players fault for exposing their troops to that much accurate close range fire and path blocking, I have no sympathy for that.

The STG 44 units are super accurate close to medium range even against retreating squads and can fire on the move.

Um, everything you just said works more in favour of the allies so not sure why you brought it up. You are just proving my point further.

Um, everything you just said works more in favour of the allies so not sure why you brought it up. You are just proving my point further.

Except not at all.

I cannot remember when it has been different to be honest. This game was always full of spam.

Pretty much. That's the flaw of CoH, it's a spam and teching race. Blobbing needs to be punished. Badly. OKW gets away with this too many times. Soviets somewhat less. US Rifles Some what less also. OST gets slapped around too easily so they build 2-3 MG's just to cover ONE sector at times.

I made a suggestion in another thread to introduce a mechanic that allows squads to REALLY share damage if grouped too close. I'm talking about if 1 squads gets shot at and they have another squad next to or behind them, they BOTH take damage. Space them out.

All I can say is OP is the fact that your signature banner indicates autistic levels of Wehrabooness making a thread which is in line with that predisposition does very little to support your argument

l2p, "spam heavy" lol

All I can say is OP is the fact that your signature banner indicates autistic levels of Wehrabooness making a thread which is in line with that predisposition does very little to support your argument

l2p, "spam heavy" lol

Eh.... I play both axis AND allies. I have a slight prefference towards playing germans yes but I play both in somewhat equal fashion. I played a game with the soviet union today and I together with my teamates mopped up the germans in 18 minutes. Again I was just using conscripts and towards the end T34's. That was it. I did call in an IS2 at the very end but it never fired a shot because the match was over before I could use it!

I would say the fact that I and others playing soviets keep pulling these off supports my argument pretty well actually

2VS2 and above axis is OP as fuck. No arguments dude.

Except not at all.

Classic argument

Still wierd, USF gets both qualitative and quantitave firepower in the early game. You can get 4 riflemen out before ost gets 4 grenadiers out. Followed by free lieutenant and then the brick wall obsidian armored m20. No matter which way you look at it you will be on the backfoot the first 10 minutes. As ostheer. Which is totally fine to a degree.

Riflemen are fine, hell even stupid free upgraded squads is ok balance wise. My whole issue is the m20 as ostheer. No competent player will let it get fausted ever. Even if you do whats the point exactly gets repaired in .01 seconds? Its invulnerable to small arms so you need either a pak or 222 to finish it off. The unit is basically free map control, just roll it up and kite anything. Screen with like 1 rifle squad and not even a 222 do much of anything.

Decrease riflemen cost to 260 mp, increase build time by 50%

Nerf m20 armor by 15%. Why should it be resistant to small arms fire considering how much else it can do, give it a sight bonus, buff its vet gain, i dont really give fuck?

Riflemen get buffed but takes away the super early quad riflemen start 2-3 minutes into the game.

Buff pak howitzer/bazooka/fix meta/whatever.

Just dumb how quickly USF can reach critical mass 5 minutes into the game where you basically have to rely on the USF player making mistakes and then pulling through just barely until armor starts rolling around where you can start actually trading effectively until jackson+scott rolls around by then hopefully you abused meta like a cunt and ur tiger or CAS wins you the game before they can bleed you hard enough. Just because they dont have pershing or some other BS doesn't mean they should have all the advantages early game.

Eh.... I play both axis AND allies. I have a slight prefference towards playing germans yes but I play both in somewhat equal fashion. I played a game with the soviet union today and I together with my teamates mopped up the germans in 18 minutes. Again I was just using conscripts and towards the end T34's. That was it. I did call in an IS2 at the very end but it never fired a shot because the match was over before I could use it!

wow, you out-callin meta'd some 4v4 scrubs? Jeeze, clearly Soviets are OP.



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Just because they dont have pershing or some other BS doesn't mean they should have all the advantages early game.

yes it does.

surviving as ost against usf early game is childs play when compared to surviving as late game usf against well supported tiger(s). combined with bs stuka strafe and rifle nades forcing you to have super-human micro to d0dge them all.

with that being said, the m20 advantage can be negated by saving all your muni in pgrens shrek upgrade.

@OP trash thread m8. try to win as allies without spamming your ass off. You wont have great success. Its literally all u can do as allies to stand a chance. It comes down to the spam u must choose, it can be rifle spam, arrty guard spam in call-ins. either way as allies you do what needs to be done, I can guarantee the axis team WILL be spamming tigers and whatever op shit they enjoy using.

Still wierd, USF gets both qualitative and quantitave firepower in the early game. You can get 4 riflemen out before ost gets 4 grenadiers out. Followed by free lieutenant and then the brick wall obsidian armored m20. No matter which way you look at it you will be on the backfoot the first 10 minutes. As ostheer. Which is totally fine to a degree.

Riflemen are fine, hell even stupid free upgraded squads is ok balance wise. My whole issue is the m20 as ostheer. No competent player will let it get fausted ever. Even if you do whats the point exactly gets repaired in .01 seconds? Its invulnerable to small arms so you need either a pak or 222 to finish it off. The unit is basically free map control, just roll it up and kite anything. Screen with like 1 rifle squad and not even a 222 do much of anything.

Decrease riflemen cost to 260 mp, increase build time by 50%

Nerf m20 armor by 15%. Why should it be resistant to small arms fire considering how much else it can do, give it a sight bonus, buff its vet gain, i dont really give fuck?

Riflemen get buffed but takes away the super early quad riflemen start 2-3 minutes into the game.

Buff pak howitzer/bazooka/fix meta/whatever.

Just dumb how quickly USF can reach critical mass 5 minutes into the game where you basically have to rely on the USF player making mistakes and then pulling through just barely until armor starts rolling around where you can start actually trading effectively until jackson+scott rolls around by then hopefully you abused meta like a cunt and ur tiger or CAS wins you the game before they can bleed you hard enough. Just because they dont have pershing or some other BS doesn't mean they should have all the advantages early game.

another M20 problem is its AT crew, when i play USF when i see enemy Light armor like 222 or puma i just have to hop out of the car if encounter by them or hop out at base let a RE take over, usually if my M20 killed something it is easily a vet 2-3 AT unit in a early game which i always think it is broken. and M20 have best AT mine.

There also a crazy thing about USF to replace their lose on high vet unit back in late game for USF. I lost a vet 3 rifle, no problem let a jackson crew hop out and rifle get in and play safe land few shots on enemy tanks, Jackson become vet 1 hop out the rifle is vet 3 again.

Still wierd, USF gets both qualitative and quantitave firepower in the early game. You can get 4 riflemen out before ost gets 4 grenadiers out. Followed by free lieutenant and then the brick wall obsidian armored m20. No matter which way you look at it you will be on the backfoot the first 10 minutes. As ostheer. Which is totally fine to a degree.

Riflemen are fine, hell even stupid free upgraded squads is ok balance wise. My whole issue is the m20 as ostheer. No competent player will let it get fausted ever. Even if you do whats the point exactly gets repaired in .01 seconds? Its invulnerable to small arms so you need either a pak or 222 to finish it off. The unit is basically free map control, just roll it up and kite anything. Screen with like 1 rifle squad and not even a 222 do much of anything.

Decrease riflemen cost to 260 mp, increase build time by 50%

Nerf m20 armor by 15%. Why should it be resistant to small arms fire considering how much else it can do, give it a sight bonus, buff its vet gain, i dont really give fuck?

Riflemen get buffed but takes away the super early quad riflemen start 2-3 minutes into the game.

Buff pak howitzer/bazooka/fix meta/whatever.

Just dumb how quickly USF can reach critical mass 5 minutes into the game where you basically have to rely on the USF player making mistakes and then pulling through just barely until armor starts rolling around where you can start actually trading effectively until jackson+scott rolls around by then hopefully you abused meta like a cunt and ur tiger or CAS wins you the game before they can bleed you hard enough. Just because they dont have pershing or some other BS doesn't mean they should have all the advantages early game.

...the usf salt.. ....is all I have to say........except the part with the M20.

an armor nerf would do nothing. That doesnt fix the problem.
It needs to cost 30-35 fuel, maybe MP increase to 400 as well really..nothing more nothing less. No reason it should cost so little fuel wise right now.

Doing that would domino all you said about what was so batshit overpowered about USF.

what you're conveniently not mentioning,is massive USF MP bleed in the long run,and delayed M20 AND lieutenant from going 4 rifles,as well as the fact that if ostheer resists the 4 rifle build with i dont know...combined arms? they will go ahead in the manpower war significantly. And they will almost always win the game unless they throw.

You know how you counter 4 rifles LT M20?? Dont play on la glieze,stalingrad, or semoisky,and dont be a silly goose and build 4 grenadiers vs 4 riflemen. Vs conscripts..yeah that makes sense....Why would you build 4 grenadiers vs riflemen. You will obviously lose every engagement ever,and then become outnumbered,and then...lose.....unless you are engaging 2v1 which isnt efficient obviously..

.....You have sniper(literally take one shot on a rifle squad and all of the sudden your grens win ,MG,pios with flames(which DESTROYS unhealed rifles,which is usually the case when they rush M20)...why 4 grenadiers. Surely you can be more creative..or smarter.. than that. You only have like 5 different starting units after all.

And regarding "Abusing the meta like a cunt"
If USF is being a meta whore,so can you. Its okay to be a wallflower in coh2.
Mech assault stookie tiger stall \ OpieOP />Airborne M20 LT tech
CAS LMG blob>Rifle company flame blob
Mech assault STUG EE \ OpieOP / also>Infantry LT M20. (However double m1919 rifles are kinda OP at the moment ill admit that

Every faction/matchup in this game suffers from lack of viable strategies, so I have to reference your sig-pic here..."Deal." with it. for like a week and a half.