Maps you really REALLY do not like to play on
10 Jun 2015, 09:33 AM
#41
Posts: 64
Lol! I really cannot stand the larger boards or the ones covered in snow. Only because they make my computer lag.
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10 Jun 2015, 12:05 PM
#42
![avatar of 1[][]](/uploads/avatar/9394.png?updated=1397144681)
Posts: 172
Whoever spawns south wins or has a HUGE edge. Too easy to get the cutoff.
I've tried hopping the fence. It seems to work all the time.
Likewise, the Church is a key secondary objective. It holds both the muni and victory points, the house to the south of it cuts off fuel for the player on the south side of the map.
Strategic locations matter more than strategic points. THAT is good map making.
10 Jun 2015, 15:23 PM
#43
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
Permanently Banned
I've tried hopping the fence. It seems to work all the time.
Likewise, the Church is a key secondary objective. It holds both the muni and victory points, the house to the south of it cuts off fuel for the player on the south side of the map.
Strategic locations matter more than strategic points. THAT is good map making.
Its a pretty well known fact that regardless of any of that that the north side is at a disadvantage
1337 h4X0R, dank memes
axis
10 Jun 2015, 16:21 PM
#44
Posts: 172
Its a pretty well known fact that regardless of any of that that the north side is at a disadvantage
No
10 Jun 2015, 17:51 PM
#45
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
No
After playing for a long time against good players, i'm telling you, this is not a balanced map. I don't mind playing north as allies even if i'm at disadvantage, but as Axis...oh god.
Map disposition tends to make the game drag to the west-middle side. This converge into the north spawn cutoff point. Theres also no really easy way to circumvent the map when you get the "pin" on the north. Should i add that theres also really easy ways to block the retreat paths and we have just a mortal combo here.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
10 Jun 2015, 19:19 PM
#46
Posts: 1554 | Subs: 7
After playing for a long time against good players, i'm telling you, this is not a balanced map. I don't mind playing north as allies even if i'm at disadvantage, but as Axis...oh god.
Map disposition tends to make the game drag to the west-middle side. This converge into the north spawn cutoff point. Theres also no really easy way to circumvent the map when you get the "pin" on the north. Should i add that theres also really easy ways to block the retreat paths and we have just a mortal combo here.
+1
I completely agree with you. My experience tells me that northern spawn Moscow Outskirts Summer as Axis is death sentence versus players of equal/higher skill, it's even worse in the Winter version due to blizzards and deep snow.
Whereas the house on southern cutoff can be somehow used to protect it the house on northern cutoff is predestinated to be abused as tool to hold you off rather than being a defensive object which can be used by yourself to protect the cutoff. To maximize this effect there stand more houses which can be abused for the same goal. A mixture of Allies' mobility, short range combats, these houses as LoS blockers and garrisons completely shut down any attempt to break through.
"Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca
10 Jun 2015, 19:30 PM
#47
Posts: 172
After playing for a long time against good players, i'm telling you, this is not a balanced map. I don't mind playing north as allies even if i'm at disadvantage, but as Axis...oh god.
Map disposition tends to make the game drag to the west-middle side. This converge into the north spawn cutoff point. Theres also no really easy way to circumvent the map when you get the "pin" on the north. Should i add that theres also really easy ways to block the retreat paths and we have just a mortal combo here.
I see what you mean, but owning east side starting with that church and working your way toward that house south of it let's you focus on middle. Starting north I ALWAYS make that church a priority, it's free middle until you force the guy to build mortars or snipers.
10 Jun 2015, 20:13 PM
#48
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I see what you mean, but owning east side starting with that church and working your way toward that house south of it let's you focus on middle. Starting north I ALWAYS make that church a priority, it's free middle until you force the guy to build mortars or snipers.
AND you have green and yellow cover to shoot at the church while the guys inside only have 1 window to shoot from...
MG? You can circunvent the church through 4 routes, mid VP, left side of church, munition point or graveyard by vaulting.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
10 Jun 2015, 21:13 PM
#49
Posts: 172
AND you have green and yellow cover to shoot at the church while the guys inside only have 1 window to shoot from...
MG? You can circunvent the church through 4 routes, mid VP, left side of church, munition point or graveyard by vaulting.
what are you doing having only one unit there? or do you usually have 1 unit go through each part of the map? I send pio's to cap after I garrison that church or else i just have several units there mg+pio and a coming gren squad
10 Jun 2015, 23:07 PM
#50
Posts: 270
This is absurd. And kholdony is another awfully designed map.
I'll try again.
The source of my frustrations that should be removed
10 Jun 2015, 23:28 PM
#51
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
what are you doing having only one unit there? or do you usually have 1 unit go through each part of the map? I send pio's to cap after I garrison that church or else i just have several units there mg+pio and a coming gren squad
I'm saying the church is not a huge stronghold and you have a long way making it into the cutoff house. You said you have "free" mid till your opponents get a sniper/mortar. I'm telling you that you only have 1 window to shoot from while south has sandbags and fences. You can't outpush greencover with a building or an MG.
Pio>T1>MG>Gren
Theres only 1 situation on which you make it into the church, your opponent is SU and opens with a Tier (weird this days) and you skip capping the first flag. If not, his conscript/rifle is arriving way faster than you.
If playing against OKW, it might probably go for a Kubel first and rush your cutoff. You just need to drag the game a bit and not get suppressed while you later tech M3/M20 and enjoy your free reign of wipe and chaos.
Anyway, i'm no one to tell you not to enjoy the map, but you should open your eyes if you think that Moscow is a balanced map.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
11 Jun 2015, 03:16 AM
#52
Posts: 172
I'm saying the church is not a huge stronghold and you have a long way making it into the cutoff house. You said you have "free" mid till your opponents get a sniper/mortar. I'm telling you that you only have 1 window to shoot from while south has sandbags and fences. You can't outpush greencover with a building or an MG.
Pio>T1>MG>Gren
Theres only 1 situation on which you make it into the church, your opponent is SU and opens with a Tier (weird this days) and you skip capping the first flag. If not, his conscript/rifle is arriving way faster than you.
If playing against OKW, it might probably go for a Kubel first and rush your cutoff. You just need to drag the game a bit and not get suppressed while you later tech M3/M20 and enjoy your free reign of wipe and chaos.
Anyway, i'm no one to tell you not to enjoy the map, but you should open your eyes if you think that Moscow is a balanced map.
It's balanced. You will be suppressed by the church, I don't know why you think that building is easy to take down when in fact it's not. You cling to this green cover sandbags as if it will basically win you the game when destroying units in green cover would range from slightly easier to completely easier than a church building. Can mortars precision shot that church building and kill the crew as easily as crew in sandbags?
You forgot that CoH cover is "what you see is what you get".
There's a reason players starting with MG's would choose the building over green cover in many maps like rails an metal, it provides cover from multiple directions easily and can't get one shotted by vet 1 mortars.
Open my eyes? Look. learn the map, hop a fence, rush to a building. that is good map design. Putting 3 MG's covering a gas point out in open ground is not.
11 Jun 2015, 13:14 PM
#53
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
First of all, precision strike is not available from the get go and no one gets a quick mortar, specially as SU. Meta nowadays is conscript/rifles into whatever.
The power of a buildings comes around the number of windows you can shoot from.
Green cover > Garrison cover. Although stat difference is just slightly (0.05 RA)
Anyway, at this point i think it's pointless to discuss if you are entitled to your opinion.
A high ranked 2v2 player and a strategist is telling you something, probably other top players might also think so. I guess we are just wrong and our experience is flawed.
The power of a buildings comes around the number of windows you can shoot from.
Green cover > Garrison cover. Although stat difference is just slightly (0.05 RA)
Anyway, at this point i think it's pointless to discuss if you are entitled to your opinion.
A high ranked 2v2 player and a strategist is telling you something, probably other top players might also think so. I guess we are just wrong and our experience is flawed.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
11 Jun 2015, 13:54 PM
#54
Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1
It's balanced. You will be suppressed by the church, I don't know why you think that building is easy to take down when in fact it's not. You cling to this green cover sandbags as if it will basically win you the game when destroying units in green cover would range from slightly easier to completely easier than a church building. Can mortars precision shot that church building and kill the crew as easily as crew in sandbags?
You forgot that CoH cover is "what you see is what you get".
There's a reason players starting with MG's would choose the building over green cover in many maps like rails an metal, it provides cover from multiple directions easily and can't get one shotted by vet 1 mortars.
Open my eyes? Look. learn the map, hop a fence, rush to a building. that is good map design. Putting 3 MG's covering a gas point out in open ground is not.
rushing to a building in the early game and being like "yup, gg" is not good map design.
servant to the vet 5 königskübel
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
11 Jun 2015, 15:40 PM
#55
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
rushing to a building in the early game and being like "yup, gg" is not good map design.
Company of houses... I still remember Oka River and it's infamous cutoff house. You could cap while garrisoned in
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
11 Jun 2015, 16:23 PM
#56
Posts: 172
First of all, precision strike is not available from the get go and no one gets a quick mortar, specially as SU. Meta nowadays is conscript/rifles into whatever.
The power of a buildings comes around the number of windows you can shoot from.
Green cover > Garrison cover. Although stat difference is just slightly (0.05 RA)
Anyway, at this point i think it's pointless to discuss if you are entitled to your opinion.
A high ranked 2v2 player and a strategist is telling you something, probably other top players might also think so. I guess we are just wrong and our experience is flawed.
Good then I guess getting in that house was good after all. It sure beats getting into green cover that won't give you good line of sight instead of a building that will. Mhmm get smoke grenaded and flanked easy, mhmm that's is sandbags for you. You know what will still give you at least SOME cover? a building.
It's end of discussion, you're not breaking out stats anymore because they can't help you so I know you're out of arguments.
rushing to a building in the early game and being like "yup, gg" is not good map design.
yea it is
11 Jun 2015, 16:45 PM
#57
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
OK, keep playing at top5000. I'm just trying to teach you a couple of things.
A building is good as long as you have enough windows to shoot from. If not, they are just noobtraps.
A building is good as long as you have enough windows to shoot from. If not, they are just noobtraps.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
11 Jun 2015, 16:58 PM
#58
Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1
yea it is
creates so much variety and in depth strategy, this 1 early game winning house everyone rushes to the moment the game starts
servant to the vet 5 königskübel
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
12 Jun 2015, 00:28 AM
#59
Posts: 172
OK, keep playing at top5000. I'm just trying to teach you a couple of things.
A building is good as long as you have enough windows to shoot from. If not, they are just noobtraps.
lol right, we don't all have teammates to back us up in 2v2, i random it. anyway i play on a shitbox in a small town with 2mb internet so you see how my micro is but i don't bitch all of the time about losses
creates so much variety and in depth strategy, this 1 early game winning house everyone rushes to the moment the game starts
rather it be a destructible house than campers with a field truck/medic truck nearby
12 Jun 2015, 01:15 AM
#60
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
Dude moscow summer is not balanced, south spawn is easy mode. You can can easily harass both, cut off and fuel.
I don't know how bad players have to be in order to have problems with a HMG in a church. All it takes to counter that are two cons attacking from 2 sides or a mortar. The church usually gets quickly destroyed and is in addition too far away to overwatch the enemy cutoff.
I don't know how bad players have to be in order to have problems with a HMG in a church. All it takes to counter that are two cons attacking from 2 sides or a mortar. The church usually gets quickly destroyed and is in addition too far away to overwatch the enemy cutoff.
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