Wehrmacht has to many "get out of jail free" abilities

then he uses blitz, reversing faster than a Jackson can accelerate, attack ground misses, paks creep up, tank gets away.

Sherman deploys smoke, takes too long, dies. Even if the smoke is use preemptively it isn't that good. it just warns ur opponent an attack is coming

Exactly true. Sherman needs to stop completely to release smoke.

German smoke (and smoke on the Scott and UC) are dumb. They should take time to activate so that it does protect the tank, but not so that you can get down to tiny bits of health and then just escape.

Attack ground is ok, but you lose all the bonuses of shooting at a target so smoke still makes it more unlikey you will kill the tank. Blitz should only work in forward gear.

Sherman smoke is very different from Tactical smoke and is not as good. It is still useful, but is far more niche. Actually never seen it used before an attack because the range on it is not far enough to keep Sherman back and it fires too slowly to cover and area quickly. Still ok to cover retreating units, but not as good as good as tac smoke.

I feel the Wehrmacht's "get out of jail cards" are more or less fair enough in their own right considering blitz requires vet 1, and tactical smoke requires certain doctrines. Where as Sherman smoke requires no doctrines, can be fired in direct areas while on the move, and allows for good sight blockers of enemy at-units, but is also fair considering how stronk USF armor is.

Exactly true. Sherman needs to stop completely to release smoke.

That is not true at all, firing the first smoke canister interrupts your current move order, but you dont need to stop, just shift queue the next move order and the rest of the smoke is fired on the move, in practical terms if executed right you wont even slow down.

Sherm smoke is good, but at least requires a bit of micro to keep the tank moving fast. All smoke can be countered with adequate micro for attack ground. I am irritated that the Germans get both smoke AND blitz, though. And really, the Tigers etc getting Blitz has always been silly. Those are the LAST vehicles that need defensive ability buffs to make them even more survivable. Imagine smoke or Blitz on an IS2, lol.

IMO the problem is Blitz, it's so hard to balance correctly. We've been through phases where it's too good, and phases where it's completely useless. The core issue is that because of engine limitations they apparently can't consider forward speed and reverse speed as separate variables - the best way to balance it in principle would be to make Blitzkrieg only boost forward speed, so it's an offensive ability only.

Two alternate ways to balance it in light of engine limitations might be:

1. Can only use blitz when out of combat. Thus you launch it before an assault, not just when you want to plan your escape.

OR

2. Blitz disables reverse. While it's active, you can only move forward. Thus a retreat requires you to turn and face your rear armor while it's active. May not be possible due to other engine limitations tho.

Super glue costs 15? Munitions while a teller mine costs 60.
The price difference between button smoke is 10 and any good player will attack ground when a nearly destroyed tank escapes button with smoke. And since you float regularly a lot of munitions whining about 10 munitions difference seems rather BabyRage.

Button is not useless. Especially against tanks that don't have smoke which is by far the majority

Are you serious?
I'm talking not about 10 muni or how button is useless.

I'm talking about how it is hard to execute a good Button and how easily vehicle can escape it using smoke. The fact that it is cheaper is just another dumb addition.

Stug E is OP. Got completely wrecked early game? Boom, pull this thing out and wipe some squads.The fact that it can fight enemy armor- poorly- makes it worse.

TL;DR Stug E is a get out of jail free card.

Hit a teller mine with USF ? no prob ! smoke in ennemy direction, repair your motor in 2 sec, cya.
Wher hit a M20 mine ? hehe good luck with that

I feel the Wehrmacht's "get out of jail cards" are more or less fair enough in their own right considering blitz requires vet 1, and tactical smoke requires certain doctrines. Where as Sherman smoke requires no doctrines, can be fired in direct areas while on the move, and allows for good sight blockers of enemy at-units, but is also fair considering how stronk USF armor is.

Finally, an accurate and non-biased analysis. Congratulations sir.

IMO the problem is Blitz, it's so hard to balance correctly. We've been through phases where it's too good, and phases where it's completely useless. The core issue is that because of engine limitations they apparently can't consider forward speed and reverse speed as separate variables - the best way to balance it in principle would be to make Blitzkrieg only boost forward speed, so it's an offensive ability only.

I would make Blitz only available if the tank is not in a fight just like recharging of the OKW grenades. It should encourage spearhead attacks and no pull backs. In addition it shouldn't work with the backwards mode.

Hit a teller mine with USF ? no prob ! smoke in ennemy direction, repair your motor in 2 sec, cya.
Wher hit a M20 mine ? hehe good luck with that

Pretty sure a well known forum warrior is rushing to come here to tell you that you have to use attack ground when your enemy use smoke...so don´t worry, no enemy will scape from you using smoke...

anyway your problem is half of the problem of a USF player facing smoke and blizt sooo, you are a lucky man!!

Finally, an accurate and non-biased analysis. Congratulations sir.

I would make Blitz only available if the tank is not in a fight just like recharging of the OKW grenades. It should encourage spearhead attacks and no pull backs. In addition it shouldn't work with the backwards mode.

+1 Good idea.

Pretty sure a well known forum warrior is rushing to come here to tell you that you have to use attack ground when your enemy use smoke...so don´t worry, no enemy will scape from you using smoke...

anyway your problem is half of the problem of a USF player facing smoke and blizt sooo, you are a lucky man!!

You still cant escape properly from an engine damage ( no more blitz ) or engine destroyed ( you are screwd ), and dont tell me USF don't use LT tier against Wher ;D
i prefer american get out of jail free concerning vehicle

Why not just change blitz to not offer any speed bonus's, just a nice received accuracy bonus. So that way it helps preserve your tanks be it running away or charging in but you can't go sanic speed to pull off stupid escapes you shouldn't be able to.

EDIT: That or cause Blitz to give you engine overheated critical after it's done so you can't maintain your speed.

Why not just change blitz to not offer any speed bonus's, just a nice received accuracy bonus. So that way it helps preserve your tanks be it running away or charging in but you can't go sanic speed to pull off stupid escapes you shouldn't be able to.

EDIT: That or cause Blitz to give you engine overheated critical after it's done so you can't maintain your speed.

For once I might agree with you on something Alex.

I also like the idea of it can only be used to go forward and reverse is disabled (if possible with the game engine) that makes sense as your not going to really lightning war the enemy going in reverse running away.

And @VonIvan that's hilarious.

hi
I'd like to join the discussion.
I have a feeling that concentrating purely on calling both smoke and blitz "get out of jail abilities" is wrong. They can only be called in such a way when a player is competent enough to secure the retreat path and has picked a doctrine which allows smoke. Using these abilities effectively is difficult. You need to prepare munitions for each of them, plus after you retreat you must retreat another unit to repair the vehicle. Ostheer is usually starved for half-game and must really carefully pick what to spend munitions on. The opponent should prepare for the chase in exactly the same way; that is collect munitions on abilities plus plan how to conduct a chase using numerical superiority. The players who count on just rushing onto the enemy (some count on just waiting) and killing armour with massed AT, bazookas, jacksons, etc. should be aware that the beauty of this game is that it is not about spamming. Remember that most of American units have magic buttons that cost ammo and deal more than decent amounts of damage against armour. The thing is that you have to be a skilled player to use them well. Part of the problem is that very often the match involves a US player overextending and losing units one afer another while the ost player skillfully manages to repel all attacks save muntions and fuel for much more expensive equipment (teching etc). At the same time US player should have built a good selection of units that can be used to finish of any armour. You cant have both - losing expensive equipment for half of the match and than be surprised that something can defeat you.
Another argument would be that there are more and cheaper abilities on the US side. My favourite is: the bazooka crew in a minelying infantry killing vehicle who can cap while repairing a crit and be upgraded with thompsons. In my opinion, Rambo abilities like that should really be called "get out of jail free" ability plus they make the game completely not what it is supposed to be - no combined arms.

the bazooka crew in a minelying infantry killing vehicle who can cap while repairing a crit and be upgraded with thompsons. In my opinion, Rambo abilities like that should really be called "get out of jail free" ability plus they make the game completely not what it is supposed to be - no combined arms.

you cant upgrade an M20 crew with thompsons.

that alone Shows how much you play or really know about USF.

Blitz let your tank counters its hard counter. It is like the riflegrenade that counter HMG by having a greater range with vet.
Something is weird within the concept itself. You build a counter to an evident type of unit and this unit can deny you for 50 ammo. What are hard counters for in that case?

Smoke is fine in my opinion as it is only a soft counter, it gives a bit more tactics and decision making.

Blitz is like a god mod of 5 seconds, if you use it well, you simply wreck your target and go home like a flower.

hi
I'd like to join the discussion.
I have a feeling that concentrating purely on calling both smoke and blitz "get out of jail abilities" is wrong. They can only be called in such a way when a player is competent enough to secure the retreat path and has picked a doctrine which allows smoke.

Smoke that insta auto deploys and hitting a button that make you out run any allied tank takes very little skill and I hardly see OH having a problem ever having the munitions to do this against me unless I have deprived them of there munition point.

The opponent should prepare for the chase in exactly the same way; that is collect munitions on abilities plus plan how to conduct a chase using numerical superiority.

IF you hit the magic blitzkreig button there is no chase period that is part of the problem you can out run any of our tanks backwards(which even if we managed to get close enough for one shot your tiger or panther will probably bounce it off the front and out run any of our tanks before a 2nd shot)


The thing is that you have to be a skilled player to use them well.
Part of the problem is that very often the match involves a US player overextending and losing units one afer another while the ost player skillfully manages to repel all

Again, smoke that insta auto deploys and hitting a button that lets you outrun any allied tank backwards takes very little skill and also encourages ost players to be less skilled with there tank as they have that much less to worry about it being knocked out.

Decrewing your vehicle to repair a crit why deploying smoke from your sherman first that has a delay or nearby riflemen that have delays to deploy there smoke takes much more skill then above. It is also highly dangerous if the crew goes below 3 members or is killed you might of just gave the enemy your e8 or jackson, needless to say that is not going to be good. Now when your tanks are in general faster or just as fast as ours I don't see why when we are doing all of this that you have no time to move your vehicle up and through the smoke to get the last hit or attacking ground to kill our sherman or jackson or there crew outside. Especially when you need to chase one of our tanks down for the last 1 or 2 hits you can hit the blitzkrieg button to with out a doubt make that happen.

also the crew members have to be at least vet 1 I believe which obviously that takes little time to happen but could come into effect if said vehicle is crited right out of the shute.