Jackson spam

Perhaps a fuel increase. That's the only thing I would say. Rest fine

1. Most ostheer players spam Tigers
2. US players adapt by building multiple jacksons
3. "Why aren't my tigers working?"

Tiger spam is the most common ostheer tactic. It's not surprising USF players have gotten used to it and will often preemptively build multiple jacksons to counter them. But don't be surprised when your opponents aren't caught off-guard by you doing the most predictable thing in the game.

Pory

Ye well obviously that specific combo works far less well against Soviet meta play in 1v1 as well, be that Guard Motor or Shock Rifle.

1. Most ostheer players spam Tigers
2. US players adapt by building multiple jacksons
3. "Why aren't my tigers working?"

Tiger spam is the most common ostheer tactic. It's not surprising USF players have gotten used to it and will often preemptively build multiple jacksons to counter them. But don't be surprised when your opponents aren't caught off-guard by you doing the most predictable thing in the game.

Well now with CAS doctrine Ostheer can spam grenadiers and pzgrenadiers, how long time before seeing a NERF SCOTT TOOOO POWERFUL!

Effectiveness vs cost is probably the biggest whine point

Well now with CAS doctrine Ostheer can spam grenadiers and pzgrenadiers, how long time before seeing a NERF SCOTT TOOOO POWERFUL!

You're too late.

http://www.coh2.org/topic/34764/mortar-carriage

There.

Relic, why allied tank destroyers are killing my tanks?

Krupp Stahl was legendary, only space aliens could penetrate it with magical, unicorn guns, allies couldn't beat krupp stahl and that is why they have lost the war.

Y U do dis rerik?
U y think massed tank destroyers should kill heavy tanks?

We know from history lessons that only orbital bombardments were able to do so, not amassed puny allied 90mm guns

Lets not get personal here. Only I can call other people assholes.

On topic, I think the Jackson is in a fine spot, with the penetration buff/damage decrease its a whole lot less erratic than in the last patch and performs its role of mobile, long range AT well without being gamebreaking. The Tiger is overall decidely mediocre now, but that does not mean it sucks or has no place in the game, especially against USF. Think of it as a more beefy/cost effective PIV. Vs US, anchor the Tiger with double Paks to prevent Jackson kiting/ medium tank rushes, and protect the Paks (that is the most important part) with infantry, Mgs, mines and the Tiger itself. A HT is also a strong addition to keep your units at full strength and provide additional staying power, while a lategame sniper can inflict manpower bleed, poke your opponent, and goad him into unfavourable engagements.
This combination is micro intensive, but has strong synergy and won many a game. Being heavy on static play/teamweapons, the obvious vulnerability of this unit composition is to arty, but not all US commanders have arty available nor make effective use of their options in the first place.

I agree but such heavy micro to keep a tiger alive is not fun. It's actually quite stressful. Furthermore if P-47 rockets or IS2's are called in it's good game tiger.

I agree with the jackson buff, but not at the same price (125 fuel.) Everytime one goes down its immediately replaced.

Poor axis fanboys crying they actually have to support their tiger with other unit like the insanely good pak40 or else its not effective. Relic needs to make patch so that making the first Tiger just triggers a victory condition.

Wait, are you seriously crying about the tiger being micro heavy? You should actually try using the jackson if you want to see a micro-intensive piece of armor. Oh, and don't make a single micro mistake either because you have no armor and no health to rely on if you find yourself in a bad spot for even a split second.

tldr - try loiter strafe - a micro free way to kill multiple jacksons for just a small amount of ammo. gg relic.

Poor axis fanboys crying they actually have to support their tiger with other unit like the insanely good pak40 or else its not effective. Relic needs to make patch so that making the first Tiger just triggers a victory condition.

Wait, are you seriously crying about the tiger being micro heavy? You should actually try using the jackson if you want to see a micro-intensive piece of armor. Oh, and don't make a single micro mistake either because you have no armor and no health to rely on if you find yourself in a bad spot for even a split second.

tldr - try loiter strafe - a micro free way to kill multiple jacksons for just a small amount of ammo. gg relic.

The jackson is 125 fuel (easily replaced.) It has a longer range and is much faster than a tiger to get out of bad positions.

I agree but such heavy micro to keep a tiger alive is not fun. It's actually quite stressful. Furthermore if P-47 rockets or IS2's are called in it's good game tiger.

I agree with the jackson buff, but not at the same price (125 fuel.) Everytime one goes down its immediately replaced.

Except it wasn't really a buff. In fact it lost DPS.

1. Most ostheer players spam Tigers
2. US players adapt by building multiple jacksons
3. "Why aren't my tigers working?"

Pretty much...

Tiger is fine imo, the issue is wher players dont use combined arms to support it, they expect it to be a anti everything unit. They dont use shreks , tellers or mg/infantry pak support. Most just use grens lmg blobs in to tigers like scrubs and get smashed

Is that a joke? You really think it is easier to get a jackson out of a bad position then it is a tiger? Well then, I can see why you are having problems. I guess in your opinion axis needs a better AT option then the pak40 as well?

Jackson has no vision, no health, and no armor. It is a "tank hunter" that can only reliably pen about half the tanks in the game. It faces the most effective AT in the game, and its enemies have very effective off-map abilities against it as well. The very definition of an OP unit right?

Lol jacksons pen not high enough. Can't 100% pen elefants and jagdtigers yet. Too weak for its price.

Daspoulsons great possible view on zhe jackson

Jesus, there are so many exaggerations flying every which way I don't even know where to begin.
Ill just say this:
1. The Tiger is not useless, and it will not die automatically just because and IS-2 hits the field or rocket strafe is activated, or what have you. It can take a lot more punishment than the P IV, and absorb a good deal of Pak/Medium tank fire from the front, all the while inflicting strong DPS on infantry and dominating vanilla Shermans and T-34-76s.
2. The Tiger, compared to previous patches and relative to the Allied meta, is in fact weaker than it was before, mostly because it has much less survivability. In the long run it is a questionable choice against Shock Rifle, and equally problematic against Guard Motor especially. If you play against someone like Molo, who will inevitably bring out 4 or even more 85s, a marked Tiger can literally go down in one salvo before you even have the slightest chance at micro.
The problem with that as I perceive it is simply that giving the way the meta currently plays out on the great majority of maps, Axis victories are almost necessarily comebacks, often won by mid-to lategame impact units. (ie. StuG-E, Tiger)
Against competent Conscript/Rifle play, on most maps it is just extremely difficult not to be on the back foot even with the OH earlygame buffs, and the fact that the Tiger no longer represents a no-tech, no-brainer (mind you, not an I-win button) means to come back into the game is a legitimate issue.

Addendum: All of this pertains to 1v1. I have no problem imagining that in 4v4 with its accelerated tech/more vehicle centric play the Tiger is generally no longer an attrative choice.

Is that a joke? You really think it is easier to get a jackson out of a bad position then it is a tiger? Well then, I can see why you are having problems. I guess in your opinion axis needs a better AT option then the pak40 as well?

Jackson has no vision, no health, and no armor. It is a "tank hunter" that can only reliably pen about half the tanks in the game. It faces the most effective AT in the game, and its enemies have very effective off-map abilities against it as well. The very definition of an OP unit right?

Look I spotted AceLolCake.

Enough brawling? thanks

Back to topic...with respect to one another....(hopefully)....otherwise...

If they only fixed AP shells, everything would be fine.

If they only fixed AP shells, everything would be fine.

I'd also agree. Fixing it three-shotting mediums and making more reliably fend off heavies was good, but they didn't do the first part entirely.