broken-ass strategy

vcoh wehrmatch players are now doing this anti british strategy which is broken as fk
_spam alot of pioneer to feed the medic bunker
_lots of pioneer still can overwelm 2 early infantry squads (upgrade with flamer)
_pioneer can be max levelled in early game
_the more i kill pioneer the more they get free grenadier
_get the halftrack which can supress infantry and high damage
commandos or churchill are useless because they are uncheap
stuart still got nailed by schreck-gren
_call in the stuh = game over

so anybody (pro brit) know how to deal with this ??

don't forget the mine at the HQ, and the pio + shrek gren in a 251 rush... fun stuff. (insert best game ever, perfectly balanced yada yada yada here)

alright... if i remember correctly, you have a couple options, you may:
-keep your trucks in your base
-build an early vickers in a super-unflankable spot... not a great option.
-i think the best option was a bren gun carrier and a vickers.

regardless, be sure to get a bren gun on your first section and instead of going Cpt. to stuart straight away, a couple engineer sections and PIATs are going to be required to chase away the HT, if you're really pinned in a mortar pit can help you clear the bunkers.

good luck

addition:
going back through old notes. the Lt. had forward recon artillery from the royal canadian artillery regiment at 2 CP's which murdered bunkers, as well as commando demos. you may want to try 2 recon sections, a joint snipe can neutralize a Pak38 and make a flame pio squad think twice. supported by a bren gun carrier this could at least make it an uphill approach for the wehrmacht.
a base dive with the bren gun carrier, a reverse cheese can also be deadly, and finally the churchil with it's mine plow and tank shock if you can survive to 3 CP's can really be deadly if micro'd correctly.

edit edit: i wonder if basilone or any other of the reborn guys will catch this thread. pretty sure they invented the damn thing. i wasn't in the habit of citing strategies back then, so i don't really know who to attribute it to, but either way, i'm sure there's some people that know this tactic more intimately and can help you.

yea i did that but didn't work tho, they spam too much pios like 4,5 squads (get flamer later) and interupt my capturing squad and force them to retreat so i kinda hard to get a bren or piat, if i get a bren first, they will call in stuh and wipe everything, and piat still the same, 1 shot from stuh = 3 mens die, i have built the AT but their schreck gren and stormtrooper flank in and destroy everything mines are useless cuz they use sweeper tho
sometime they get the stuh after the HT so bren is useless....
i beat all PE and wehr strategy but this crazy one

It's essential to recognize the pio spam early and get a bren gun carrier. You're not making sense my friend. The math involved here to create such a lopsided situation is impossible. You're not facing a StuH by the time you get your first Bren gun.... We can't help you unless you're willing to be realistic. 5 pio squads, without vet, is at least 3 minutes worth of income, more than enough for you to have an Lt. and a Bren Carrier, at least, maybe another stock infantry section as well. If your recon squad is pushed away, you can be left floundering without anywhere to plop your HQ down, especially if they interrupt the cap by pushing your squad. This is why I suggested leaving your HQ in your base sector.

The Bren gun will never be useless, buttoning and PIAT's will be a pretty good soft counter for the StuH, and provide more than ample time to either flank it with a Stuart or if you're doing well, a Cromwell, or even outright destroy it with the PIATs alone. Don't forget to flank it's frontal armor.

it's easy to say but hard to do, i know the buttoning techique but they got their HT supressing my unit and flamer do the rest, i did move my HQ but it only secure 1 sector, the pios damage and killing my infantry in the early so i spent some MP to reinforce so the lt can wait for that. the bren carrier got it health reduce to half after facing blobs of 4 pios squad and did medium damage to them and force them to retreat. after i got my lt i call in a infantry HQ and get sappers before that, while upgrading piat they already rolled in with HT and 4 squads of pios and 1 schreck gren
infantry can't do shit because they got 3 squads of flamer already and bren as well due to schreck. i can't get stuart because they captured most of the map. the churchill and stuh showed up the same time and church can't do shit to stuh, sapper got wiped after 1 volley of piat. then 2 more free grens stomp in and gg. any idea ?

vcoh wehrmatch players are now doing this anti british strategy which is broken as fk
_spam alot of pioneer to feed the medic bunker
_lots of pioneer still can overwelm 2 early infantry squads (upgrade with flamer)
_pioneer can be max levelled in early game
_the more i kill pioneer the more they get free grenadier
_get the halftrack which can supress infantry and high damage
commandos or churchill are useless because they are uncheap
stuart still got nailed by schreck-gren
_call in the stuh = game over

so anybody (pro brit) know how to deal with this ??

It's easy to kill this start on that patch. pio spamm was very common in 2.601. Now the veterancy for pio has changed. And the pio are easy killed even with vet2. They are strong at vet3 but the fuel cost is too high and vet3 is long to get. You can rush it in 20-25 minutes i'd say.

So basically, the counter is to cut you of on your strategic point and wait there. You don't want medic bunker with such a low-support army as any guy with common sens would kill the medics.

If you vet the pios very early (as the 2.601 pio spam suggest), you won't have enough fuel to tech to anything fast enough for any kind of counter. In other words, if you pop your HT while the Stuart just arrived, that's too bad for you.

The only startegy I suggest for a quick kill on a brit is :
- 5 pios,(cap all the map and contain the brit (wires, traps, jump in/out houses)
- T2 tech, (brit starting to cap 1-3 of your territories)
- HT (push back the brits from your cut of)
- gren, gren, schreck, schrek
- vet 1 inf,
- terror doc, left side, zeal 1CP
- first fight with ht+ 2 grens, stay in green cover (kill the bren here or injure the lieut)
- vet 2 inf + 3rd gren schreck,
- big push with 3 schrecks, get something : lieut, medic center, mortar, mg nest, bren..
- stay with 3 men squads of grens (THATS THE IDEA), so you get the bonuses from vet 2 and from zeal
- win
- if you don't win there, move back and wait for the brits to move
- he goes to attack your side, get your grens in the HT and rush to trucks
- win

I have a 99% win ratio with this.


The only strategy i suggest to win as brit is turtle on your fuel, and wololo with stags.

yea if you let your pios scatter around the map i can beat you and your HT, i only get annoy when you blob your pio and interupt my capturing. i'm not like other defensive-brits (only spam def structure and arty)

Try getting two fast bren carriers and upgrade the MG, do this before getting a Lt. Keep them seperate so the blob cant charge them down together, kite them like crazy, really drain their MP before they are allowed to put too much pressure on your truck, dont wait that will already too late.

Any emplacements or infantry/trenches are pretty risky vs flame blob. At least brens can back away and have a repair function. They may try to counter with scout cars, but use the brens together and AP ammo will ruin them.

If you apply enough kiting with the brens that should occupy the pios and your Recon squad should be able to cap a lot of the map.

Pio spam is an all in (more or less), your investing all your early fuel into engineers.. against these types of builds you ussually want large T1 to weather the initial storm. Then as you have also failed to teck up much, it might be easier to go for churchills. If you feel you can get out a cromwell, do that instead.

Now the veterancy for pio has changed.

Don't lie plz Pepsi

Don't lie plz Pepsi

From 2.601 to now, i believe some of the vet2 bonuses and vet3 have been inverted, especially the ones referring to the units survivability. I might be wrong but i haven't seen that piospamm since a long time before pre-steam

The only startegy I suggest for a quick kill on a brit is :
- 5 pios,(cap all the map and contain the brit (wires, traps, jump in/out houses)
- T2 tech, (brit starting to cap 1-3 of your territories)
- HT (push back the brits from your cut of)
- gren, gren, schreck, schrek
- vet 1 inf,
- terror doc, left side, zeal 1CP
- first fight with ht+ 2 grens, stay in green cover (kill the bren here or injure the lieut)
- vet 2 inf + 3rd gren schreck,
- big push with 3 schrecks, get something : lieut, medic center, mortar, mg nest, bren..
- stay with 3 men squads of grens (THATS THE IDEA), so you get the bonuses from vet 2 and from zeal
- win
- if you don't win there, move back and wait for the brits to move
- he goes to attack your side, get your grens in the HT and rush to trucks
- win

I have a 99% win ratio with this.


The only strategy i suggest to win as brit is turtle on your fuel, and wololo with stags.

Pepsi,

He isn't asking how to execute pio-spam against Brit (though knowing how it is being executed should help) he is having trouble beating pio-spam AS a Brit.

I do not know about these supposed veterancy changes but if it is anything like before then you can never beat anyone decent as Brits (if they are playing Wehr). There is a reason why they were never used in tournaments!

The advice given above is decent but at the end of the day you have to accept that anyone good as Wehr will beat you.

it's easy to say but hard to do, i know the buttoning techique but they got their HT supressing my unit and flamer do the rest, i did move my HQ but it only secure 1 sector, the pios damage and killing my infantry in the early so i spent some MP to reinforce so the lt can wait for that. the bren carrier got it health reduce to half after facing blobs of 4 pios squad and did medium damage to them and force them to retreat. after i got my lt i call in a infantry HQ and get sappers before that, while upgrading piat they already rolled in with HT and 4 squads of pios and 1 schreck gren
infantry can't do shit because they got 3 squads of flamer already and bren as well due to schreck. i can't get stuart because they captured most of the map. the churchill and stuh showed up the same time and church can't do shit to stuh, sapper got wiped after 1 volley of piat. then 2 more free grens stomp in and gg. any idea ?

that's basically the right idea. now it just comes down to practice. try getting your Lt. out as a second unit, it will help your sections tremendously, and heroic assault could also probably alleviate some of the issues in anti-inf.

before your bren gun carrier gets a vickers upgrade, and after you've forced a retreat, harass munitions pts and cut offs with a section inside as well. that will buy you some time.

From 2.601 to now, i believe some of the vet2 bonuses and vet3 have been inverted, especially the ones referring to the units survivability. I might be wrong but i haven't seen that piospamm since a long time before pre-steam

Yes because veterancy can only be bought after you build a building or upgrade FHQ. So straight out pios into veterancy is impossible. Which was the thing that made pio spam broken.
Veterancy bonuses themselves were never changed though.

The strategy that's being used since 2.602 is the one u said earlier: 5 pio into T2.