OKW Op.... really?

How does spawning on empty buildings with high DPS, faust, & grenades not count as best late game infantry? Obers are still the best infantry with upgrades, Jesus Christ you make it sound like Cons and Rifles are on par.

Obers are not the best infantry. Not in any parameter.

Also why should okw get the best late game infantry? Fair enough if it is tied to vet. but okw doesn't suffer from less mp.

Because their infantry costs the most.

Because their infantry costs the most.

Actually it doesn't.
Comparing resource investment to what you get, weapons, abilities, non doctrinal most expensive infantry are upgraded rifles.

If we are to include doctrines, its M1919 paras.

Actually it doesn't.
Comparing resource investment to what you get, weapons, abilities, non doctrinal most expensive infantry are upgraded rifles.

If we are to include doctrines, its M1919 paras.

The most expensive infantry in game are Obersoldaten.

80 fuel(x 1,44) and 400 manpower.

And without a munitions upgrade they get outdpsd by penals.

When you scroll over obers it says 400mp.
T4 is not a side upgrade, its a normal tier which you will always have.

You pay 400mp to have the unit spawn on the field.
Then you pay 60 muni for LMG.

Their total cost is 400mp and 60muni.

Penals at max range deal 4 DPS. How much Obers deal again?

Had a good laugh responding to you though, haven't seen that retarded arguments in a while.

When you scroll over obers it says 400mp.
T4 is not a side upgrade, its a normal tier which you will always have.

You pay 400mp to have the unit spawn on the field.
Then you pay 60 muni for LMG.

Their total cost is 400mp and 60muni.

Penals at max range deal 4 DPS. How much Obers deal again?

Had a good laugh responding to you though, haven't seen that retarded arguments in a while.

It doesn't matter what it says when you scroll over obers. If you can build obers without teching up then show us. Which is exactly why call ins will always be cheaper than non-doctrinal tanks with equal cost. It's an objective fact and nothing you can discuss.

A penals outdps obers at ranges under 10. You will say 'that's close range' but still, we have a 400mp unit being outdpsd by a significantly less expensive one.


And even if you exclude teching cost for obers, and include 60 muni for an lmg, then paras and obers will be(about) the same cost if you translate munitions into manpower.

Also why should okw get the best late game infantry? Fair enough if it is tied to vet. but okw doesn't suffer from less mp.

Couse Hitler must win. Don't be silly.

It doesn't matter what it says when you scroll over obers. If you can build obers without teching up then show us. Which is exactly why call ins will always be cheaper than non-doctrinal tanks with equal cost. It's an objective fact and nothing you can discuss.

On the contrary.
If it was like you say, I want T34/76 to beat command panther. Getting T34 costs more after all, so its only logical that T34/76 should beat command panther.

4 conscripts should also beat tiger ace, because 4 cons cost more menpower then TA and TA doesn't cost fuel so its pure mp vs mp, right?

Its amusing how wrong you can be.

A penals outdps obers at ranges under 10. You will say 'that's close range' but still, we have a 400mp unit being outdpsd by a significantly less expensive one.

Osttruppen out DPS shocks at range 15+.
Buff shocks?

And even if you exclude teching cost for obers, and include 60 muni for an lmg, then paras and obers will be(about) the same cost if you translate munitions into manpower.

Even after that, paras are still more expensive by a good muni chunk.
390(or is it 380? Doesn't matter really)+120 is more then 400+60.

It doesn't matter what it says when you scroll over obers. If you can build obers without teching up then show us. Which is exactly why call ins will always be cheaper than non-doctrinal tanks with equal cost. It's an objective fact and nothing you can discuss.

A penals outdps obers at ranges under 10. You will say 'that's close range' but still, we have a 400mp unit being outdpsd by a significantly less expensive one.


And even if you exclude teching cost for obers, and include 60 muni for an lmg, then paras and obers will be(about) the same cost if you translate munitions into manpower.

Yes, a penals squad outdps obers at ranges under 10, and that is bad balance. Well i guess we should buff shocks DPS by 10x, since 240 mp grenadiers outDPS shocks by like 10 times at long range

On the contrary.
If it was like you say, I want T34/76 to beat command panther. Getting T34 costs more after all, so its only logical that T34/76 should beat command panther.

Here it doesn't matter who beats who, but the fact remains that the T-34/76 costs more than the Command Panther. This wasn't a question of 'Who is better', it was a question of which infantry costs the most.

4 conscripts should also beat tiger ace, because 4 cons cost more menpower then TA and TA doesn't cost fuel so its pure mp vs mp, right?

Tiger Ace is a tank and Conscripts have no AT weapons. So no, they shouldn't.

Osttruppen out DPS shocks at range 15+.
Buff shocks?

Are you trying to tell me that you have problems beating Osttruppen with Shocks? Or is the point here that Osttrupen have a higher Anti infantry power than Shocks? Where did you take the assumption from that I think it's bad balance? Can you refute that Penals outdps Obers in ranges lower than 10? No? Then we simply leave the statement like it is, Penals outdps Obers at ranges under ten, and Osttruppen outdps shocktroopers at ranges over 15. Let people form their own opinion about it. The statement is still unrefuted.

Even after that, paras are still more expensive by a good muni chunk.
390(or is it 380? Doesn't matter really)+120 is more then 400+60.

Paras have lower opportunity cost, but higher risk and perform like 350 mp unit roughly without upgrade.

And then you add (120x2) to that and end up with 590. Do the same with Obers and you end up with 580. Of course it was no surprise that you didnt factor OKWs munition income in.

And then you add (120x2) to that and end up with 590. Do the same with Obers and you end up with 580. Of course it was no surprise that you didnt factor OKWs munition income in.

l2math

How does spawning on empty buildings with high DPS, faust, & grenades not count as best late game infantry? Obers are still the best infantry with upgrades, Jesus Christ you make it sound like Cons and Rifles are on par.

Its performance and survivability are nothing speial.I'm not OKW player but i've never seen fallschirms able to beat para.1919 or new guards when i'm playing in team.The initial; oppurtunity cost can't justify the brutal reinforcement cost once surprise is over.

Are obers still best infantry?Can they beat rifles with 1919 upgrades,or paras with 1919 or guards with upgrades?I'm not sure.Will have to compare some stats.What i have seen is obers are used very much less now and when they come out they are certainly overpriced at 400 mp,compared to say guards guards coming out at 360 mp with free PTRS.The 50 mp reinforcement cost is no longer justified by their current performance.

Here it doesn't matter who beats who, but the fact remains that the T-34/76 costs more than the Command Panther. This wasn't a question of 'Who is better', it was a question of which infantry costs the most.

No, T34/76 still costs 100 fuel. You are not taking the building to the field and using it to fight directly, so you do not count building cost. Tiering is a timing limitation, not indicator of strength.
So, you're wrong.

Tiger Ace is a tank and Conscripts have no AT weapons. So no, they shouldn't.

Make that 3 ATGs then. TA still wins here despite being cheaper.
Conspiracy I say!

Are you trying to tell me that you have problems beating Osttruppen with Shocks? Or is the point here that Osttrupen have a higher Anti infantry power than Shocks? Where did you take the assumption from that I think it's bad balance? Can you refute that Penals outdps Obers in ranges lower than 10? No? Then we simply leave the statement like it is, Penals outdps Obers at ranges under ten, and Osttruppen outdps shocktroopers at ranges over 15. Let people form their own opinion about it. The statement is still unrefuted.

Since the general idea of weapon profiles and effective ranges is something that is beyond your comprehension, let me stop acting like I'm talking to someone who knows his shit and switch for a moment for a "I'm talking with an idiot" mode:

There are different types of small arms weapons in the CoH2.

Some small arms are good at close range, some are good at long range, some are good at all ranges.

Obers by default are long range infantry, they excel at long range.
Penals by default are short to mid range infantry, they excel at short to mid range.

If you get them into their effective range, they will have an edge if they haven't lose 2 men on approach because obers excel at long range, perhaps you should not keep shooting at that cache and turn around earlier.

/imtalkingtoanidiotmodeoff

And then you add (120x2) to that and end up with 590. Do the same with Obers and you end up with 580. Of course it was no surprise that you didnt factor OKWs munition income in.

Ober LMG costs 60.

Substracting paras opportunity cost and focusing on the combat effectiveness cost we have:

~350+240(assuming 1mun=2mp) vs 400+120.

590>520.

Obers are not the best infantry. Not in any parameter.

Obers are the best long range infantry in the game with an upgrade.

Yes, more insults please!

Are we seriously considering the insane idea that 1 munitions = 2 MP? What fever dream did you clowns pull this from?

By that standard my Panzerfuss should be really kicking ass ((90/.8)x2)+290=515

Are we seriously considering the insane idea that 1 munitions = 2 MP? What fever dream did you clowns pull this from?

By that standard my Panzerfuss should be really kicking ass ((90/.8)x2)+290=515

Yes, why don't they kick shock troops ass (390mp)

No, T34/76 still costs 100 fuel. You are not taking the building to the field and using it to fight directly, so you do not count building cost. Tiering is a timing limitation, not indicator of strength.
So, you're wrong.

Incorrect.
Tiering requires resources. Which is why you stated yourself that heavy call-in tanks should be limited to 1 at a time. They enjoy being free from tiering costs. Otherwise, there is a simple and scientific way to measure it. Play a game and measure how many of which resources you have spent until you have got your first Obersoldaten squad. I can guarantee you it will be more than just 400 manpower.

Make that 3 ATGs then. TA still wins here despite being cheaper.
Conspiracy I say!

No it doesn't. The only possibility of it winning against 3 AT guns is with favourable RNG, and that's applicable everywhere.

Since the general idea of weapon profiles and effective ranges is something that is beyond your comprehension, let me stop acting like I'm talking to someone who knows his shit and switch for a moment for a "I'm talking with an idiot" mode:

There are different types of small arms weapons in the CoH2.

Some small arms are good at close range, some are good at long range, some are good at all ranges.

Obers by default are long range infantry, they excel at long range.
Penals by default are short to mid range infantry, they excel at short to mid range.

If you get them into their effective range, they will have an edge if they haven't lose 2 men on approach because obers excel at long range, perhaps you should not keep shooting at that cache and turn around earlier.

/imtalkingtoanidiotmodeoff

Ok, I agree. I have only looked at the DPS profiles.
What's with the insults though? Did I insult you?

Ober LMG costs 60.
Substracting paras opportunity cost and focusing on the combat effectiveness cost we have:
~350+240(assuming 1mun=2mp) vs 400+120.

590>520.

This is equally incorrect. The lmg costs 60 munitions, adjusted for true OKW Munitions income you have to factor this by 1,5 or 1,44. Practically the lmg costs 90 or 86 munitions then. And then you come out with 580.
[edit: I've been corrected and apparently okw has an 83,333& munitions income. That would render the LMG munitions cost at about 72 and a few numbers I've squished. So this point is moot]

See, math works, but math only works if you apply it correctly. You have to calculate the Teching cost, because it's simply resources that go away. If teching is just a timing delay, then it would be ok if the IS 2, with it's current cost, would be moved to Soviet T4. But it's not ok.

In mathematical terms: Obers require 40 fuel + 80 fuel + 400 manpower all in all in order to practically get to use one. Since OKW starts with 40 fuel you take 40-40 = 0
Now you're also not including OKW Fuel penalty. Fuel penalty is calculated by factoring it with 1,44. [(80 * 1,44) * (Fuel to MP translation factor)] + 400 = X mp

You need X resources to attain one Obersoldaten Squad. If you remove (80* 1,44), then you cannot get X.

...

Not sure if troll, alt account or whatever. Anyway let me correct you that:
-OKW gets roughly 83% munition income (80% if you are lazy).
-So if you are gonna adjust, the value is 1.25

So that's 75 or 72 to be more precise.
Go on, keep fighting.

Not sure if troll, alt account or whatever. Anyway let me correct you that:
-OKW gets roughly 83% munition income (80% if you are lazy).
-So if you are gonna adjust, the value is 1.25

So that's 75 or 72 to be more precise.
Go on, keep fighting.

Oh, I see. Point taken. I will edit it.