Ostheer's Panzer IV vs Sherman/T34 Costs

Since when T34 is not good in 1v1 ? O_o

since the very moment that a heavy hit the field, and that is just a few minutes after t34 hit the field....


again, I´ll ask you to change your behaviour here...as part of the staff, your behaviour is not acceptable in this forum. At least in my opinion...staff here should show the rest of the users how to behave, what is good manners here and so on....but your posts are oppositte to that, and more than that, they are not constructive at all....

really not the way you should behave here while being part of the staff.

I hope others guys from staff could tell you that this is not the way to go here.

just My opinion.

since the very moment that a heavy hit the field, and that is just a few minutes after t34 hit the field....

I´ll ask you to change your behaviour here...

- In a 1v1, T34 will appear way long before tiger, can you precise "a few minutes" cause in 5 min or more, a lot of damage can be done by a T34, and the SU can call Heavy after that too.

- Funny sentence from a guy who make personal attack on multiple posts, but, "again", can you show me where i offended you ? i really dont want to hurt your sensibility you know

- In a 1v1, T34 will appear way long before tiger, can you precise "a few minutes" cause in 5 min or more, a lot of damage can be done by a T34, and the SU can call Heavy after that too.

T-70 can do much more damage, because it actually can hit what it shoots at.
And going for T3 will be a suicide if you haven't dominated early game, because you'll end up with T34 and IS-2 while your opponent will have a pair of Tigers at the same time.

Your first T34 will cost only slightly less then Tiger and doesn't have half the impact of T-70 or even fast P4, which again, can actually hit what it shoots at.

since the very moment that a heavy hit the field, and that is just a few minutes after t34 hit the field....

Well that depends on the game but i would say 10 min. but the p4 is in the same boat. they have no chance against the is2 and to an extent, e8 and the 85, as well. both factions need to switch to their dedicated TD's. and that's the problem as neither the ostheer or su have TD's in tier 3 and switching is expensive.

so its difficult using tier 3 in the face of the callin meta. and heavies should counter medium armour otherwise there is point in getting them.

T-70 can do much more damage, because it actually can hit what it shoots at.
And going for T3 will be a suicide if you haven't dominated early game, because you'll end up with T34 and IS-2 while your opponent will have a pair of Tigers at the same time.

Your first T34 will cost only slightly less then Tiger and doesn't have half the impact of T-70 or even fast P4, which again, can actually hit what it shoots at.

T34 is good to chase remaining light vehicle ( or even a StugE, good luck with a T70), circle/crush squads, and can resist way more than a T70, if at 6 CP you have a T34, you can screw up an axis player waiting for 11 CP, gaining map control, so more fuel, will give you more heavies.

Of course, i don't recommand going T34 if you just lose early and mid game, and i never did
T34 its a great tool to "push even more the pressure" and punish axis player waiting only for heavies, anyway you will have heavies too in late game

I dunno, I've repeatedly seen t34s be extremely effective especially against mech assault commanders with their stug Es.

Soviet T3 is situational. Most stock tech choices by SU are situational. Given that, you could endlessly posit circumstances that would merit choosing one unit over the other.

T34 is good to chase remaining light vehicle ( or even a StugE, good luck with a T70), circle/crush squads, and can resist way more than a T70, if at 6 CP you have a T34, you can screw up an axis player waiting for 11 CP, gaining map control, so more fuel, will give you more heavies.

Of course, i don't recommand going T34 if you just lose early and mid game, and i never did
T34 its a great tool to "push even more the pressure" and punish axis player waiting only for heavies, anyway you will have heavies too in late game

I agree with you but actually Mid game dedicated units aren't enough rewarding or cost effective, in many cases your opponent can still turtle and comes back with a tiger/is2.
In some map, the strategy to give-up a bit more territory and let your opponent overextend and invest in mid units and then comes back with a strong push works pretty well.

I agree with you but actually Mid game dedicated units aren't enough rewarding or cost effective, in many cases your opponent can still turtle and comes back with a tiger/is2.
In some map, the strategy to give-up a bit more territory and let your opponent overextend and invest in mid units and then comes back with a strong push works pretty well.

This is why i said move heavies to 15-17 CP would be good, i enjoy medium tank fight a lot, heavies against heavies are vomitive to watch, in my opinion.

I really never see a mark IV come out that much later than a sherman. Even when the sherman does you have these things called shreks that wreck it and at guns that can kill it in two or 3 hits? And yes I know you can kite the shreks but it only takes two shrek hits for me to retreat my tank not like in the 2-4 minuted it has by its self it is going to run around wiping half the map or close to it.

IMO t-34 (need a buff) is trash right now and a bit over priced it is really only good for fighting light vehicles and crushing infantry and maybe on a rare occasion ramming. Even if it gets behind tigers in groups it still sucks.

Sherman (Balanced) - HE rounds can be great or really bad I am not a stat guy but it seems to me HE misses ALL THE TIME. Sure every now and then it does something amazing like 1 hitting a squad. Often times I find it better just to keep the armor pen active as over all it seems to be more accurate and sometimes feels that it does better gibing infantry than the HE missing 10 times in a row or just not causing any dmg to the squad its attacking. Plus a p4 showing up out of no where can really screw you when you have to switch shells. It works way better crushing infantry and that is so much more fun.

Pz4 (Tiny nerf to AI) - Higher priced like it should be but better tank. Superior to the 34/76 and has a edge over the sherman especially vetted and upgraded with skirts it scales way better later and easily beats regular shermans then. Can have great escape/surviveability with blitzkreig/smoke.

The thing that pisses me off about the p4 though is the insane amount of damage it seems to do to infantry and consistent wipes especially with say 2 pz4s. It by far does more dmg with its guns to infantry than the sherman does with HE (cause it misses all the time or just dosen't seem to do anything with the chance of a miracle) or AP or the 34/76 for that matter. No problem with it at all other than I think it needs a tiny nerf to infantry dmg. Same goes with the long barreled stug, that thing is suppose to be an AT version but does the same thing to infantry as well high gib rates and squad wipes. Especially when the zook sucks this makes it pretty hard on USF to deal with a lot of pz4s or stug rushes.

Not sure what your playing but HE Shermans are deadly and reliable unless you're firing over certain obstacles or there's an object between the tank and the target which almost all ballistic/explosive weapons suffer when needing to rely on scatter. Every time I play a Sherman HE will point at a raketen or ATG and kill all the crew for the former while forcing the later to go through the process of replacing a gunner or loader. Also ATGs need to land 4 hits(160 damage) to kill a Sherman(640 hp). Shreks need to land 6 hits(120 damage).

As for the PIV, prior to the WFA, it was a more AT orientated tank and when I mean AT orientated, it just had better penetration at mid and long range over the T-34 while being as effective as a Panther with its MGs due to having such a high scatter. I think it's fine. Yes it can wipe, but everything gets wiped when all the models clump together. There are still occasions where the 30 munition Russian mine can wipe a full squad because they were hugging each other.

As for the StuG in its current iteration, it's not really AT. Slightly better than the PIV thanks to range and better penetration at range, but the current role of the StuG, which overlaps with the PIV is a generalist gun that smashes both infantry and medium armour while having poor survivability and mobility. Furthermore its greatest weakness are hills and inclines due to how low the gun is and where the shells originate from. It can't touch infantry unless its on the same plain the infantry are on or there are low obstacles in the way.

Of course, i don't recommand going T34 if you just lose early and mid game, and i never did
T34 its a great tool to "push even more the pressure" and punish axis player waiting only for heavies, anyway you will have heavies too in late game

This just further confirms that the tank is only good as a rush/shock unit rather than due to the performance on the unit itself.

This just further confirms that the tank is only good as a rush/shock unit rather than due to the performance on the unit itself.

Exactly. Which means it will require something in order to be worth using...

later.

Not sure what your playing but HE Shermans are deadly and reliable unless you're firing over certain obstacles or there's an object between the tank and the target which almost all ballistic/explosive weapons suffer when needing to rely on scatter. Every time I play a Sherman HE will point at a raketen or ATG and kill all the crew for the former while forcing the later to go through the process of replacing a gunner or loader. Also ATGs need to land 4 hits(160 damage) to kill a Sherman(640 hp). Shreks need to land 6 hits(120 damage).

Yeah I was being a bit sarcastic just making the point I see no problem with the sherman coming just a bit earlier there is plenty of tools to deal with it and ward it off. If they rushed it then they made other sacrifices to do that grenades bars zooks. It works the same with the ostwind when rushed. An ostwind really screw USF a whole lot worse than a sherman to ost as zooks will not do the job against it you'll just end up wiping your riflemen with out a AT gun it truly has free reign until sherman arrives.

The HE does do well against team weapons but to me it does not do that great against regular mobile infantry. It should strike fear the same way that a ostwind does to riflemen when there zooks are mostly useless against it as it kills you far before you can kill it and forces infantry to insta retreat.

Sorry but the ostwind can't one shot entire squads, can only fight infantry, and gets raped by jacksons and shermans. So yeah.

- In a 1v1, T34 will appear way long before tiger, can you precise "a few minutes" cause in 5 min or more, a lot of damage can be done by a T34, and the SU can call Heavy after that too.

- Funny sentence from a guy who make personal attack on multiple posts, but, "again", can you show me where i offended you ? i really dont want to hurt your sensibility you know

well I only have 67 posts in this forum, so is going to be really easy for you to show me those posts where I did personal attacks....because I didn´t.

anyway, and I hope I don´t need to explain this to you, all of us should behave properly and with respect of course, but you are the one with a green badge, so you should do it more than any of us (normal users).

Panzer IV isn't as cost effective as it was. As ost you are facing Cheap TD spam, better 85mm anti-everything donks, etc.

I think reducing the fuel cost to 100-110 would help alot. Just make those vet2 skirts a purchasable upgrade so that would make it more balanced(IE no free HP increase.