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It is OK to have tank with invisibility in this game?

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Bulgakov
1 Jun 2015, 17:49 PM
#61
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jump backJump back to quoted post1 Jun 2015, 15:55 PMRobocopHighlander
why would you need a fuel price reduction? It can already kill the jackson in 3 shots while the jackson has to shoot 4-6 shots to kill it. And with that already signifcant advantage, the jp4 is going to shoot first because it has better vision, and after vet1 it is invisible. In general it is also firing at tanks that are much less heavily armored then axis tanks, and therefor has a much higher penetration rate. And better front armor and a lot more health. The increased fuel cost reflects the advantages this tank has filling the same role Jackson/SU-85 fills, but doing it better.


Are you sure the Jackson will need 6 shots to kill JP4? I've not seen jp4 bouncing Jackson shots. Does anyone know the stats on the toe-to-toe match-up?


Don't forget that Jackson has a turret, which is a significant advantage over a standard TD. Though the other points you made do make sense.





Let's keep it constructive
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newvan
1 Jun 2015, 18:01 PM
#62
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jump backJump back to quoted post1 Jun 2015, 17:49 PMBulgakov

Are you sure the Jackson will need 6 shots to kill JP4? I've not seen jp4 bouncing Jackson shots. Does anyone know the stats on the toe-to-toe match-up?

It's very small chance to bounce, vanilla Jakson have like 86% of penetration on max distance, but Jagdpanzer IV have 800 hp on second star + some more armour (+23 front, +8 rare) and most important - very small hitbox for medium tank/TD (actually it's "smallest" tank in the game, size-17, T-70 have 18, Jackson-24) . So on 2 star - it takes 4 shots minimum, even with HVAP, only difference is HVAP against vanilla Jagdpanzer, 4 or 6 will be decided by RNG (hit or miss rather than penetration or deflection) and invis on/off abuse. Jagdpanzer need 3 hits to kill Jackson, it will always penetrate, + have first shoot advantage with invis.
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Katitof
1 Jun 2015, 18:47 PM
#63
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@newvan at vet0 it still takes 4 jackson shots.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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newvan
1 Jun 2015, 18:56 PM
#64
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jump backJump back to quoted post1 Jun 2015, 18:47 PMKatitof
@newvan at vet0 it still takes 4 jackson shots.

Read more carefully, I wrote - "only difference is HVAP against vanilla Jagdpanzer". It's the only situation when you need 3 hits.
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chipwreckt
1 Jun 2015, 20:01 PM
#65
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Nah its not OP (maybe add a little cooldown), Allies have abilities that are 10x more OP imo. Tanks that can cap points and repair themselves etc. + mark target, armored vehicle detection and many more xD
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Bob Loblaw
1 Jun 2015, 20:08 PM
#66
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I just went against this and wow is it stupid. It can be in an open field at medium range, shoot, go invisible, and then fire again. As we all know allied tanks start turning their turrets then so they are not retaliating when the invisibility is broken.

It needs to be toned down a little bit. I know OKW has issues right now but invisibility like that at vet 1 is stupid. I like the idea of it vetting up to do large damage since it is so expensive and needs work to vet it that high but it shouldn't be so hard to counter at vet 1.

Button was nerfed into the ground because the concept was stupid and was too punishing so I expect some consideration for this thing going invisible when in plain sight like some Nazi superhero.

My jimmies have been rustled as well.
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Existant
1 Jun 2015, 20:38 PM
#67
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tfmwaeVlg4 here is a prime example why I don't like this ability even though this did require skill and teamwork to pull it off, goto 31 mins in the video, you wouldn't be surprised who it is. Kappa
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niutudis
1 Jun 2015, 20:50 PM
#68
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Posts: 276

So the ability of the su85 , which it has at vet 0, is ok - but the ability of the jpz, which has to be unlocked at vet 1, is suddenly so annoying? :huhsign:

edit:
jump backJump back to quoted post1 Jun 2015, 20:38 PMExistant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tfmwaeVlg4 here is a prime example why I don't like this ability even though this did require skill and teamwork to pull it off, goto 31 mins in the video, you wouldn't be surprised who it is. Kappa

A panther would have done the same ...
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Katitof
1 Jun 2015, 20:53 PM
#69
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Given vet0 ability of SU-85 is default sight of JP4 and doesn't grant SU-85 optic camo of 21st century?
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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newvan
1 Jun 2015, 20:55 PM
#70
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Yap...Its 5 star bonus + command panter aura (actually Coordinate Fire ability) + HEAT Shells, did almost 800 damage.

A panther would have done the same ...

Panter doesn't have 150% bonus for damage, penetration and accuracy for first shoot from invis, and of course invis itself.












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niutudis
1 Jun 2015, 21:02 PM
#71
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jump backJump back to quoted post1 Jun 2015, 20:55 PMnewvan
Yap...Its 5 star bonus + command panter aura + HEAT Shells, did almost 800 damage.


Panter doesn't have 150% bonus for damage, penetration and accuracy for first shoot from invis, and of course invis itself.

but still the same result, because the sowiet tank had no support
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newvan
1 Jun 2015, 21:09 PM
#72
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jump backJump back to quoted post1 Jun 2015, 21:02 PMniutudis

but still the same result, because the sowiet tank had no support

Watch from 27 min and you will see what happened with support, like annihilation of 34/76 in one shot, killed SU-85 in two and almost kill on 34/85, the only reason that it survived - was cooldown on HFAT and lucky deflection on second shot.












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AchtAchter
1 Jun 2015, 21:16 PM
#73
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So after the KT has been nerfed and the panther has been indirectly nerfed people try to make "forgotten" units more viable and suddenly 1 YEAR AFTER wfa got released people complain that the JP4 is op and needs a nerf, because it's actually doing its job, destroying vehicles.

If the JP4 was op or its vet 1 ability it was also already one year ago and nobody complained, why the sudden change? We're in the mood to make another OKW OP thread just for the gold old memories?
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niutudis
1 Jun 2015, 21:23 PM
#74
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jump backJump back to quoted post1 Jun 2015, 21:09 PMnewvan

Watch from 27 min and you will see what happened with support, like annihilation of 34/76 in one shot, killed SU-85 in two and almost kill on 34/85, the only reason that it survived - was cooldown on HFAT and lucky deflection on second shot.


Realy? a TANKHUNTER doing its job is now a bad thing? :faint:
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newvan
1 Jun 2015, 21:28 PM
#75
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No one says that Jagdpanzer shouldn't kill tanks, it's main purpose of it, the only problem of Jagdpanzer is invis mechanic - evading shots by manual activation or staying invisible at such short distance, it wil not change a thing about DPS of this unit. I reply you, with previous post, couse in this situation Panter couldn't make such thing.
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Bob Loblaw
1 Jun 2015, 21:31 PM
#76
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Posts: 156

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Jun 2015, 21:16 PMAchtAchter
So after the KT has been nerfed and the panther has been indirectly nerfed people try to make "forgotten" units more viable and suddenly 1 YEAR AFTER wfa got released people complain that the JP4 is op and needs a nerf, because it's actually doing its job, destroying vehicles.

If the JP4 was op or its vet 1 ability it was also already one year ago and nobody complained, why the sudden change? We're in the mood to make another OKW OP thread just for the gold old memories?


So because you didn't hear about any jp4 complaints nerfing it is out of the question? The thing disappears mid-fight at vet 1.
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Bob Loblaw
1 Jun 2015, 21:36 PM
#77
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Posts: 156

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Jun 2015, 21:23 PMniutudis


Realy? a TANKHUNTER doing its job is now a bad thing? :faint:


That argument can be made about every unit in this game. It means nothing.
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QueenRatchet123
1 Jun 2015, 21:39 PM
#78
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Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
800hp, 17 target size, invisibility while in combat, huge sight range, great ROF,can move pretty fast while stealthed, and gets insane damage and accuracy bonus at vet 5.

sounds like a unit from a sci-fi game.

remove cloak while in combat and reduce its speed while cloaked.

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2015, 14:01 PMJohnnyB

There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
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niutudis
1 Jun 2015, 21:42 PM
#79
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Posts: 276

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Jun 2015, 21:28 PMnewvan
Noone says that Jagdpanzer shouldn't kill tanks, it's main purpose of it, the only problem of Jagdpanzer is invis mechanic. I reply couse in this situation Panter couldn't make such thing.

That´s why you choose to produce a tankhunter...

What else could the okwplayer do? Spam call in pz4´s? Or as he did , make good use of the heatrounds, that require to choose this commander, with the jpz4 and actually being carefull with his tanks and vet them up...

I mean everyone and his grandma knows about the soviet call ins - so you get something to keep them supressed , especially in a teammatch.
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newvan
1 Jun 2015, 21:51 PM
#80
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Posts: 354

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Jun 2015, 21:42 PMniutudis

That´s why you choose to produce a tankhunter...

Once more, changing invis mechanic won't change Jagdpanzer performance against other tanks, it still will have first shot and bonus from 5 star, it will be same DPS, but will not be able to dissolve in the mist during the battle or in 15 meters from the enemy.
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