Let's talk about Volksgrenadiers

But if sturmpioneers, which are already targeted as they are known to be a little fragile, by pretty much everything they come on contact with are now being further targeted because they are the only mobile form of infantry-based AT on top of repairing, laying mines, sweeping mines and building other defenses. Sturmpioneer vet could potentially now rise extremely fast making them to get to vet 3 much faster, assuming that they don't get wiped in the process. Volks will now have next to no utility later in the game and on more open maps their new, shiny MP40s/44s will be largely useless since they won't be able to close the distance or even have the upgrade since you have a lot more to spend your already rationed munitions on like sturmpioneer schreck and sweeper since you now need both.

1. i dont need the sp to be a shrek platform. volks can be either mp44 users or an at platform not both
2. utility is fine but right now the okw needs infantry that can holds its own against the soviets and usf.
3. mp44 do as much damage as a volks kar on long range and most maps favour short range combat.

1. i dont need the sp to be a shrek platform. volks can be either mp44 users or an at platform not both
2. utility is fine but right now the okw needs infantry that can holds its own against the soviets and usf.
3. mp44 do as much damage as a volks kar on long range and most maps favour short range combat.

As if you would ever actually choose to use an mp-44 upgrade unless it's very powerful doctrinally. Otherwise you'd just be wasting munitions on what could be more schrecks and you have to vet up the weakest non-doctrinal infantry. If the MP44 upgrade was viable then you'd see an army of volks, most likely in a massive blob because of how cheap they are, running around they map. Basically, you just created cheaper riflemen which is not how the OKW are designed.

As if you would ever actually choose to use an mp-44 upgrade unless it's very powerful doctrinally. Otherwise you'd just be wasting munitions on what could be more schrecks and you have to vet up the weakest non-doctrinal infantry. If the MP44 upgrade was viable then you'd see an army of volks, most likely in a massive blob because of how cheap they are, running around they map. Basically, you just created cheaper riflemen which is not how the OKW are designed.

Let me put it simply. I do not care about shreks. not after the puchpen became viable.

And volks are not cheap and second they are the okw main infantry and should be used as such. having 5-6 grens is not uncommon. having 5-6 rifles is not uncommon either. soviets rely on elite and highly effective callin infantry. and the okw needs a buff in order to stand up to the rifles or shocks/guards.

Let me put it simply. I do not care about shreks. not after the puchpen became viable.

And volks are not cheap and second they are the okw main infantry and should be used as such. having 5-6 grens is not uncommon. having 5-6 rifles is not uncommon either. soviets rely on elite and highly effective callin infantry. and the okw needs a buff in order to stand up to the rifles or shocks/guards.

Yes Yes LETS buff Volks. Say make them 320MP and stomp all over rifles and remove their Shrek. As long their Pop cap is raised and their XP pool lets see how thats recieved...

I say OKW should be ALL elite and not have a SINGLE unit that costs less then 300MP I am sure that will work out well. Yknow since Map Control isnt needed or anything....

Let me put it simply. I do not care about shreks. not after the puchpen became viable.

And volks are not cheap and second they are the okw main infantry and should be used as such. having 5-6 grens is not uncommon. having 5-6 rifles is not uncommon either. soviets rely on elite and highly effective callin infantry. and the okw needs a buff in order to stand up to the rifles or shocks/guards.

You may not care about schrecks but I'm fairly certain that many, many people do especially in the early game where allied light vehicles simply roll over OKW. Volks aren't supposed to be the general use infantry that the other factions have. The deign is for specified roles and for them to have such an upgrade defeats the purpose of about half the commanders that have call-in infantry that are better equipped to deal with infantry. Volks will never not have the schreck upgrade and with a viable MP44 upgrade will merely promote the do-it-all infantry that cause massive blobs that you a-click to victory.

You may not care about schrecks but I'm fairly certain that many, many people do especially in the early game where allied light vehicles simply roll over OKW. Volks aren't supposed to be the general use infantry that the other factions have. The deign is for specified roles and for them to have such an upgrade defeats the purpose of about half the commanders that have call-in infantry that are better equipped to deal with infantry. Volks will never not have the schreck upgrade and with a viable MP44 upgrade will merely promote the do-it-all infantry that cause massive blobs that you a-click to victory.

if a mp44 where that potent everybody would be spamming pio's guess what they are not.

Also the whole role thing is terrible. you have to over buff a specific infantry unit to make sure the okw doesn't get steamrolled by the allies. the only solution i see is either buff the obers back to their original self or buff volks. their is basically no other option because these 2 units are non doctrinal .

Also callin infantry doenst count. the okw are not the soviets that rely on callins.

Yes Yes LETS buff Volks. Say make them 320MP and stomp all over rifles and remove their Shrek. As long their Pop cap is raised and their XP pool lets see how thats recieved...

I say OKW should be ALL elite and not have a SINGLE unit that costs less then 300MP I am sure that will work out well. Yknow since Map Control isnt needed or anything....

I ignore people that try to put words in my mouth. and from this point on consider yourself ignored.

Everytime I think about the base infantry for either Axis faction I always come back to the fact that CoH1's Wehrmacht was so expertly designed.

Ostheer Grenadiers function so much more solidly as 5 man squads, but then their LMG42s easily make them too powerful. If they had an MP40 upgrade instead they'd become vCoH Volksgrenadiers. Except for the whole rifle nades thing.

If OKW Volksgrenadiers exchanged their shreks for fausts, then they'd become very close to vCoH Volksgrenadiers, except with hand grenades. All they'd need is something like an mp40 package.

Panzerfausts were key because they were not once-and-done anti-tank upgrades like shreks. That was designated for more expensive/specialized infantry. And for that reason, I don't understand why it can't be Obersoldaten that get shreks, not volks or sturmpioneers. That would REALLY make those units the elites of OKW, and probably have them function more along the lines that Relic seems to want them to be.

Volks with fausts could still be a deterrent from unopposed vehicles. I mean, they've got grenades to thrown at infantry already which is already a powerful option for cheap infantry.

Leave Sturmpioneers the same.
Exchange shreks on volks for panzerfausts.
Give Obersoldaten the option for shreks. It could even be some super penetrating or accurate shrek, or a shrek that could be fired on the move.

Shreks would be delayed, and wouldn't be so spammable. OKW already have the Raketen available from match start, so it's not like they're denied any AT at any point in the game. No fuel even has to be spent to field an ATG that scales to the endgame. Also, Sturmpioneers can lay mines.

if a mp44 where that potent everybody would be spamming pio's guess what they are not.

Also the whole role thing is terrible. you have to over buff a specific infantry unit to make sure the okw doesn't get steamrolled by the allies. the only solution i see is either buff the obers back to their original self or buff volks. their is basically no other option because these 2 units are non doctrinal .

Also callin infantry doenst count. the okw are not the soviets that rely on callins.

You can't spam sturmpios because they're 320mp, fragile, and have very high reinforce cost. Volks, on the other hand, are a 5-man squad that have a lot more veterancy geared towards combat. There is no doubt that if they had this upgrade players would just blob massive amounts of volks. Though this isn't completely avoided with the more elite call-ins, especially with breakthrough, obers, JLI, Falls, MG-34s are all 4-man squads that are easily wiped by indirect fire and tanks so blobbing them is very dangerous. Yes, I included call-ins because there's only 1 commander that doesn't buff infantry and 4 that call in some sort of squad so as it currently stand there is no reason to not talk about them.

if a mp44 where that potent everybody would be spamming pio's guess what they are not.

Also the whole role thing is terrible. you have to over buff a specific infantry unit to make sure the okw doesn't get steamrolled by the allies. the only solution i see is either buff the obers back to their original self or buff volks. their is basically no other option because these 2 units are non doctrinal .

Also callin infantry doenst count. the okw are not the soviets that rely on callins.

Wait...

#1: Not everyone thinks like you and doesnt care about schrecks. Even with the puppchen buff, you cant expect the puppchen to be everywhere blowing up everything.

#2: You cannot "spam" 320 mp 40 mp reinforce four man squads, but you can certainly do it with 235 mp 23.5 mp reinforce five man squads. That has nothing to do with whether or not stg44's are great, which they are indeed. Sturmpio Stg is great in its optimal range, as well as the panzergrenadier's stg.

Volks are rather cheap, compared to many other things. If volk schreck blobs exist, then they can technically blob with anything else, as long as there is munitions available.

I am not saying no to a volks change, i was merely looking through and saw something that was statistically and realistically incorrect.

You can't spam sturmpios because they're 320mp, fragile, and have very high reinforce cost. Volks, on the other hand, are a 5-man squad that have a lot more veterancy geared towards combat. There is no doubt that if they had this upgrade players would just blob massive amounts of volks. Though this isn't completely avoided with the more elite call-ins, especially with breakthrough, obers, JLI, Falls, MG-34s are all 4-man squads that are easily wiped by indirect fire and tanks so blobbing them is very dangerous. Yes, I included call-ins because there's only 1 commander that doesn't buff infantry and 4 that call in some sort of squad so as it currently stand there is no reason to not talk about them.

Ah but now you have made the mistake i wanted you to make. That something is expensive doesnt mean it cannot be spammed. shocks , guards and para's are all being spammed (or used in large numbers if you prefer) at the moment. Because they are effective. and i can definitely buy 4 sp from the start instead of 1 sp and 4 volks. Do you know why this doesnt work? because mp44's are not nearly as effective as you proclaim them to be.

Volks with 3 mp44 will still be slightly worse then fusiliers with g43's. and yet the usf and soviets have no problems with the the fusiliers. Will volks be used more if they have the mp44 upgrade? the answer is yes. Will they be blobbed ? no. And will be used the same way as the rifles with bars. flamethrower penals, guards with dp's and shocks.

And sp's have much better vet geared to combat then the volks.

Ah but now you have made the mistake i wanted you to make. That something is expensive doesnt mean it cannot be spammed. shocks , guards and para's are all being spammed (or used in large numbers if you prefer) at the moment. Because they are effective. and i can definitely buy 4 sp from the start instead of 1 sp and 4 volks. Do you know why this doesnt work? because mp44's are not nearly as effective as you proclaim them to be.

Volks with 3 mp44 will still be slightly worse then fusiliers with g43's. and yet the usf and soviets have no problems with the the fusiliers. Will volks be used more if they have the mp44 upgrade? the answer is yes. Will they be blobbed ? noyes. And will be used the same way as the rifles with bars. flamethrower penals, guards with dp's and shocks.

And sp's have much better vet geared to combat then the volks.

Fixed a little typo you made there, no thanks are needed.

Yeah "spamming" 2-3 guards/shocks/paras is really the hip thing nowadays. STG-44s are fantastic but since there is no longer any unit with armor that wields them it's hard for the units that have them to effectively engage. If you have a massive army of volks, whose losses you won't really give much of a fuck about, you now basically have the conscript Ppsh upgrade except it's not a downgrade. But now you're saying that that the dps from STG-44s wouldn't much worse than fusiliers with G43s which you are probably paying more manpower and munitions for. So why wouldn't I build more volks and just ignore fusiliers whose dps is now utterly useless since I can just build volks instead and do just about this same damn thing. Less fusiliers more volks with STG-44s and schrecks, man those would go really nice if they were working closely together in some sort of tight compact group to maximize the dps with the ease of just clicking a few buttons.

Edit: A little note about something that I had forgotten. Sturpioneers were once "spammed" early on in WFA because they were too effective. You get one at the start of the damn game. They are a multi-role unit and not to be confused with elite infantry such as the ones that you have described. Not only that but they are also available to every OKW player in every game because they are non-doctrinal while you were trying to leave out such units a few posts ago.

Fusiliers aren't scary because they don't get shreks.

The only reason Volks are ever an issue is that they are a t0 unit that can also be upgraded with the most powerful handheld anti-tank weapon in the game.

Volks are fine. Its not like Rifles just run them over completley. That doesnt happen. Rifles will beat them 1 for 1 every time but will usually lose 2-3 Models per squad doing so. Thats like paying 90 MP to retreat a 240MP squad. That aint bad. And it just gets better with Vet.

That's how you lose map control, resources and hence the game. 4 volks vs 4 rifles early lol
sturm?! here it comes the mighty free Lt btw min 1 in the game and here you go vet 2 rifles, good luck with that Yaaaay!

2 words. Assault Grenadiers. Basically giving them MP40s would not really solve particularly much. It would just throw them from one thing to another and would probably result in some lovely blobbing that way.

My suggestion on this is pretty much give them some MP44s but singleshot as an upgrade. Slightly improved damage. But with an ability that allows them to burstfire for a short period of time and there a debuff can always be added in.

That way they overall become stronger but at the same time can also pull of an assault role. but in a way that makes blobbing a lot more hazardous and thus not the desired action.

Similar to my suggestion on another thread...

3 different packages....

AT package (x1Shrek and AT nade capability for 90 ammo)
AI package (x1LMG34 for 60 ammo)
Assault package (x5 MP40's and incendiary nade capability for 70 ammo). (nades cost 25)


makes them more fluid.... id even be tempted to pay 240 MP per squad with these upgrades.

This would also probably reduce blobbing since different squads will have different range effectiveness.

I believe 2 g43 upgrade is better. Volks shouldn't be assault unit (spio, which is in same t0 already fill same role), and lmg will allow to abuse cheap a-move blobs, which would kill everything.

Instead of giving new weapons, how about an upgrade that gives an extra man but you can't upgrade shreck, that way volks can become purely meat-shield and much less susceptible to squad wipes?

Giving Sturmpios the Panzerschreck upgrade is not a good idea from a design perspecitive, IMO. Reason: The voice lines. The Sturmpionier voice lines that you hear when carry a Panzerschreck are messy. They use the wrong, old voice-actor (which also can be heard when they place barbed wire). So, by giving them the Upgrade, the probability of hearing these inconsistent, less polished voice-lines will rise considerably.

Volksgrenadiers, on the other hand, have proper Panzerschreck voice-lines, making the game seem a lot more clean and polished.

So no, for consistency's sake, I hope Relic will not listen to such feedback.

Giving Sturmpios the Panzerschreck upgrade is not a good idea from a design perspecitive, IMO. Reason: The voice lines. The Sturmpionier voice lines that you hear when carry a Panzerschreck are messy. They use the wrong, old voice-actor (which also can be heard when they place barbed wire). So, by giving them the Upgrade, the probability of hearing these inconsistent, less polished voice-lines will rise considerably.

Volksgrenadiers, on the other hand, have proper Panzerschreck voice-lines, making the game seem a lot more clean and polished.

So no, for consistency's sake, I hope Relic will not listen to such feedback.

If voice lines were the only problem...

On-topic: Thanks you for every piece of feedback guys!

Seems like giving Panzershrecks to Sturms wouldn't solve a thing and giving volks an AI buff would only encourage blobbing.

The way I see it right now Volks are pretty much useless as they get stomped by almost everything and for AT a Raketen is a better choice.

If voice lines were the only problem...

On-topic: Thanks you for every piece of feedback guys!

Seems like giving Panzershrecks to Sturms wouldn't solve a thing and giving volks an AI buff would only encourage blobbing.

The way I see it right now Volks are pretty much useless as they get stomped by almost everything and for AT a Raketen is a better choice.

Maybe because they are not there to deal with IA? As OKW, you have luch/FlakHT/Obers to deal with your AI needs.