assault engineers

Maybe they were fooled into beliving panzergrenadiers are at their strongest close range from looking at the stats?

That'd be like assuming vanilla Grenadiers should always be closing in against AEs.

Maybe they were fooled into beliving panzergrenadiers are at their strongest close range from looking at the stats?

Thank you for these stats, just gave me accurate number to help backup why I think upgrading grens with g43s is not really worth it over lmg42. Lol I never thought g43s were nerfed so much that they literally do no meaningful dps over kar98s at long range, how worthless.

?? G43 has always been a close range upgrade

Thank you for these stats, just gave me accurate number to help backup why I think upgrading grens with g43s is not really worth it over lmg42. Lol I never thought g43s were nerfed so much that they literally do no meaningful dps over kar98s at long range, how worthless.

They aren't supposed to because it was meant to be a mid and close-range upgrade.

But then Riflemen got made.

?? G43 has always been a close range upgrade

Not always, they changed it with the introduction of weapon profiles.

Maybe they were fooled into beliving panzergrenadiers are at their strongest close range from looking at the stats?

Assault Rifle =/= SMG =/= Carbine

G43: meant to be used at close/mid, somehow effective on the move (i think), interrogation (yeah who use it right?), while retains some damage at long range in comparison to other close range weapons. Reminder you get 2 of them.

PG MP44: depends on what you are facing, you engage at different distances.
-SMG: stay at distance
-Carbines: stay at mid-close
-Rifles: stay at close-mid

They aren't supposed to because it was meant to be a mid and close-range upgrade.

But then Riflemen got made.

http://www.coh2-stats.com/squads/riflemen_squad_mp

Using coh2 stats, and comparing g43 grens to riflemen shows g43 grens is almost never a good idea. Seems really high to me so I assume the website uses dps without reload. All in all go lmg42's 100% of the time unless you are just trolling.

I can only see g43s being worth if ambush camouflage came with.

I'm not run and gunning with grens they are a weak 4 man squad, they are not assault troops. They get fucked anywhere outside long range, g43s are not a good idea.

Come on! You have no idea about G43! This upgrade has amazin ability to question crawling ones

All in all go lmg42's 100% of the time unless you are just trolling.

I'm not run and gunning with grens they are a weak 4 man squad, they are not assault troops. They get fucked anywhere outside long range, g43s are not a good idea.

I don't agree. If they need to move some, the lmg does not fire and that matters alot. I wish I could leave them stationary behind cover to fight the enemy all the time but shit happens, mortar shells drop, you have to move around and then G43s suddenly make sense, firing on the move and faster setup (or what it's called in this case).

I don't agree. If they need to move some, the lmg does not fire and that matters alot. I wish I could leave them stationary behind cover to fight the enemy all the time but shit happens, mortar shells drop, you have to move around and then G43s suddenly make sense, firing on the move and faster setup (or what it's called in this case).

You may disagree, but as ostheer is my most played faction and I know them quite well, being able to fire on the move and do barely any damage is not worth losing your long range advantage. These troops require being stationary in cover or else they die. Grens are meant to hold the line and engage from a distance. The only thing that assaulting with g43 gren squads will get you is a retreat back to base and 90 mp worth of reinforcement. You want to assault? Then get panzergrenadiers or A move and lmg gren squad around shot blockers into a retreat path. G43 grens will lose to anything other than conscripts. Got a problem with mortars? Send a vehicle or a pg squad or counter fire with your own mortars for ost mortar is quite good. Downgrading your grenadier firepower just because you are getting mortared or caught off guard by say shock troops or other cqb infantry means you need to work on your postioning and provide your troops with better LOS, because all dedicated cqb infantry will beat g43 grens means grens suddenly have no meaningful advantage over a cqb squad. They are situational as hell and possess far less utility than an lmg gren squad.

Play however the hell you want but you cannot fool me into thinking g43 grens are more effective than lmg grens. They are there simply to look cool and may fool most of you into thinking they might actually be good. But no, it is a mediocre upgrade that pales in comparison to the overall firepower of the lmg42. Play okw for sturmpios if running and gunning and having close range firepower is your thing. Not ostheer.

The only time I would ever buy g43s again is if they could be bought with lmg42s as an expensive upgrade. Say 120 munitions to have both. The oberiflesoldaten can dual equip, I see no issue having both for grens considering how much g43s and lmg42s have been nerfed ever since the patch that only allows you to have one or the other and the fact that ost squads are the least durable of the 4 factions.

Ok, good input.

I can only see g43s being worth if ambush camouflage came with.

This is where its at. If an attempt to improve G43's need to be implemented this is it. Great Idea. Although, I have got to be honest. I find the long range stats disturbing. those things have scopes. Those are the same rifle snipers use.

None the less, camo. Talk about utility. That's where they will get it.



Alternate:

Add four rifles instead of two. If a true pump in firepower is needed and not utility, just give them more.

http://www.coh2-stats.com/squads/riflemen_squad_mp

Using coh2 stats, and comparing g43 grens to riflemen shows g43 grens is almost never a good idea. Seems really high to me so I assume the website uses dps without reload. All in all go lmg42's 100% of the time unless you are just trolling.

I can only see g43s being worth if ambush camouflage came with.

I'm not run and gunning with grens they are a weak 4 man squad, they are not assault troops. They get fucked anywhere outside long range, g43s are not a good idea.

No, I was implying semiautomatic rifles are supposed mid and close range weapons

Until Riflemen got made and broke the pattern over their knees by also being good at long range.

Though yeah, G43s are pretty useless against Riflemen, I am plenty aware of that.

No, I was implying semiautomatic rifles are supposed mid and close range weapons

Until Riflemen got made and broke the pattern over their knees by also being good at long range.

Though yeah, G43s are pretty useless against Riflemen, I am plenty aware of that.

Well, G43s doesn't really decrease grens long range DPS either, so its not like garands are alone or even first to break the pattern.

Well, G43s doesn't really decrease grens long range DPS either, so its not like garands are alone or even first to break the pattern.

Reminds me that LMGs don't actually decrease close-range on Obers or Grens, or even Riflemen and Paratroopers (except like range 4 for Rifles...barely. On Paras, range 7, and it's a noticeable DPS difference if you go from spitting range to kissing range). So pretty much only SMGs and StGs are an AI upgrade with a noticeable trade-off to what they replace.

I miss being able to spend my munitions on G43s for my lmg42 squads.

As much as I like G43s, G43s existed for the Panzer Elite in CoH1, which means that any sort of powerful, long range G43 is never going to make it to CoH2 due to its association with its predecessor.

I mean, considering the track record.

As much as I like G43s, G43s existed for the Panzer Elite in CoH1, which means that any sort of powerful, long range G43 is never going to make it to CoH2 due to its association with its predecessor.

I mean, considering the track record.

That is an utter bs.
It doesn't matter in the slightest how unit performed in coh1.

Look at KT, StuG, Puma, Grenadiers, Panzer grenadiers, mortars, P4s(MGs) Panthers(MGs), 251, 250, 221, 222, Sherman(all of them), M5 transport, flamers, bunkers and a whole plethora of other stuff that have just a name in common with coh1 counterparts.

Well, long-range G43s definitely won't exist while it would be a redundant upgrade in consideration with another upgrade for a unit that can upgrade to them.

Well, long-range G43s definitely won't exist while it would be a redundant upgrade in consideration with another upgrade for a unit that can upgrade to them.

That's how they used to work, specially with a nice ignore cover bonus.

That's how they used to work, specially with a nice ignore cover bonus.

They did what

I clearly knew nothing of the game when G43s could be bought along with LMG42s.

Not completely "ignore" but they did have a bonus accuracy agains cover.