Blob nerf aura

Would it be possible for AoE weapons (flamers,mortars,howtizers of all kind, tanks) to have their accuracy increased by a huge amount when firing onto clumped up infantry?

No, because they don't fire at models, but at ground.

Only flamers fire at models, but they already have aoe damage and a pair is murderous.

Would it be possible for AoE weapons (flamers,mortars,howtizers of all kind, tanks) to have their accuracy increased by a huge amount when firing onto clumped up infantry?

I'd doubt that since I'd imagie they can only be trying to hit one unit at once. Additionally, I think flamethrowers don't really care about accuracy since they have AoE yet no scatter so that would imply to me they can't actually miss what they're aiming at.

No, because they don't fire at models, but at ground.

Only flamers fire at models, but they already have aoe damage and a pair is murderous.

flamers also fire at ground

Knowing when to concentrate your forces should be a valid strategy, and efficiently punishable by the opposing player's counter strategy.

Whereas if you inherently punish blobbing, you remove a tactical option and make the game even more predictable and boring.

So no, I don't think it's the way to go.

I'd much rather see a further increase of MGs suppression ability and/or accuracy coupled with a sight range reduction, making the mg + spotter combination more efficient.

I'd much rather see a further increase of MGs suppression ability and/or accuracy coupled with a sight range reduction, making the mg + spotter combination more efficient.

Make HMGs require even more positioning and micro? I think half of the people 'round here would blow a gasket over that!

You're not envisioning the sight reduction hampering HMGs from inside a garrison with this concept, right?

Make HMGs require even more positioning and micro? I think half of the people 'round here would blow a gasket over that!

You're not envisioning the sight reduction hampering HMGs from inside a garrison with this concept, right?

The goal is to make combined arms efficient while avoiding mg spam.

If mgs can be used to efficiently cover each other, there's no need for other infantry.

The goal is to make combined arms efficient while avoiding mg spam.

If mgs can be used to efficiently cover each other, there's no need for other infantry.

I dunno, HMG spam might still work from that since they could still set up them in layers to shoot at flankers. The sight would only be a problem for the first HMG - the second would almost certainly be able to get a crack at the flankers easily.

Still, I definitely like the feel of what you proposed. I can't actually say how it'd work in practice anyway since it hasn't happened.

flamers also fire at ground

But they use actual accuracy instead of scatter to determine hits and just because they can attack ground doesn't mean its the only targeting mechanic they use as opposed to balistic weapons

But they use actual accuracy instead of scatter to determine hits and just because they can attack ground doesn't mean its the only targeting mechanic they use as opposed to balistic weapons

Are you sure that it really matters though? Flamethrowers have 0 scatter distance and angle while having AoE unlike small arms which have no AoE and a really large scatter distance.

If there is a received accuracy placed on blobs i think it should only affect core infantry units (no support weapons) since support units are rarely blobbed and are stationary and therefore prone to indirect fire.

Another idea is that the received accuracy modifier is taken away after the units stop moving for x amount of seconds. This would prevent defensive positions from getting the received accuracy nerf while still hurting blobs that have to move to not get wrecked by indirect fire.

I do not believe this is a very good idea. As said above, there are some logistic problems that would harm the game a lot.

As for a solution to the blobbing issue I think there are two options, and only one is something Relic might possibly do.

1) make small arms a little more realistic by making models drop like flys out side of cover, that way blobs a moving get devastated by even only a few squads set up in cover. There is a reason in WWI casualties were so high, as it turns out they A-moved into the enemy too and look how that turned out

2) make machine guns kill. there were a lot of reasons in WWII that infantry combat changed, and why squads moved the way they did. A lot of it has to do with the fact that indirect explosives and machine guns kill in swaths if in the right conditions. One machine gun could easily slaughter a whole platoon if it had an ambushing position.

My point is that right now gameplay wise we have a suppression tool, which is cool and all but it doesnt do jack shit against blobs simply because they get killed off by all the return fire. You all have seen a blob run at a machine gun in this game, in real life they would have killed half of them in the first burst. We dont need anything that drastic, but I feel if we made all Machine guns much more expensive (like on the pack howi/ infantry support gun level) and made them both suppression and killing tools bolbs would be halted in their tracks. I'm talking pre nerf Obers damage if you get caught out in the open. It wont solve all the problems, and will definitely cause more. But we have killing indirect fire, I think we need killing MGs

I'm not sure this is the proper way to go about fixing this, as Inverse said this feels like a bandaide approach.

I'm wondering if maybe removing the defensive bonuses units receive from suppression would do anything(or just remove it from clumped units?). This would make sure that at least the blob takes some manpower bleed and forces a faster retreat or face the consequences.

I'm not sure this is the proper way to go about fixing this, as Inverse said this feels like a bandaide approach.

I'm wondering if maybe removing the defensive bonuses units receive from suppression would do anything(or just remove it from clumped units?). This would make sure that at least the blob takes some manpower bleed and forces a faster retreat or face the consequences.

The defensive bonus only applies against the suppressing machine-gun, I think.

How will axis only players be able to play then?

You forgot about USF browning/patchfinders spam.

If the doctor isn't going to do surgery, a bandaid is exactly what's needed.

+1 to debuff aura. Been saying this for months now.

You forgot about USF browning/patchfinders spam.

...this is actually a thing?...over the Paras you can get instead?

Good there already is such mechanics in game. It's called AoE suppression. All we need is adding AoE suppression to all types of artilery (from mortar to ML-20) and some huge boost to AoE suppression range on ALL MGs. At least 1.5 multiplier of todays values if not 2.0. Some really mild AoE suppression on tank guns can also be considered. These are all quite big high explosive shells, you know.

It in fact has all desired features in it:
1. It works wonders against clumbed squads.
2. It works worse/doesn't work when enemy is in cover.
3. You need to counter the blob, it does not couter itself (like in case of aura).
4. It stops war of blobs (aura doesn't, it just makes blobs disassemble during fights).

Btw it's important to know that one or two mg's should not stop 8 unit blob directed by half minded player. You should need to have at least half of blob's unit count of mg's to counter it.
(2:1 is great ratio in fact and usually it's more as mg's are dirt cheap)

If the doctor isn't going to do surgery, a bandaid is exactly what's needed.

That's a poor analogy and a bad reason to implement a fix. The last patch added some good ways to assist in taking out blobs in the form of pioneer sight range, mg42 accuracy bonus, and Le.ig/pack howitzer suppression.

More subtle changes like that are the way to fix things, not a quick-fix that could have completely unforeseen consequences. That was their old way and it ended with most patches only solving the problems implemented in the previous one.

If there is a received accuracy placed on blobs i think it should only affect core infantry units (no support weapons) since support units are rarely blobbed and are stationary and therefore prone to indirect fire.

Another idea is that the received accuracy modifier is taken away after the units stop moving for x amount of seconds. This would prevent defensive positions from getting the received accuracy nerf while still hurting blobs that have to move to not get wrecked by indirect fire.

Affecting only core infantry, or some call-ins is the whole point of this. Only spamable units (Grens,Volk,Pzgrens,Fusi,Shocks,Cons etc.) should be affected not support weapons.

I don't agree with you second point about removal of the effect after being stationary. Most blobs deal huge damage when stationary (LMG Grens, LMG Rifles-which have defensive stance- LMG Obers, PTRS Cons).

I'm not sure this is the proper way to go about fixing this, as Inverse said this feels like a bandaide approach.

I'm wondering if maybe removing the defensive bonuses units receive from suppression would do anything(or just remove it from clumped units?). This would make sure that at least the blob takes some manpower bleed and forces a faster retreat or face the consequences.

The damage reduction is only applied to suppressing unit (Only the MG deal less damage) but that's also an option.

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If the doctor isn't going to do surgery, a bandaid is exactly what's needed.

+1 to debuff aura. Been saying this for months now.

This.At this point we can't really expect Relic to redesign core mechanics.

How would you implement something like this when the core of USF and OKW's strats involve lots of a single type of unit by design.