Which Faction Is OP At Present & Why ?

Got to agree with Bulgakov on bad design.
Smaller then coh1 maps coupled with lack of effective, reliable blob counters is a pain.

In coh1 quickly landing off-maps, instant retreat prop arty and light/medium armor that actually destroyed blobs was partial solution to the problem as the blobs were still ever present, but you had more effective tools to deal with them.

CoH2? Pinplanes, stuka zu fuss, ISU and thats pretty much it. Usually its just the bigger blob.

I think Ostheer could actually be at a fine spot if Panzerwerfer and 105mm were significantly buffed. The only thing they totally fail at atm. is large indirect fire (aka everything but mortars).

That and a small reduction in tech cost. Tiger tanks could also need a small survivability buff with vet. They die like flies imo. To compensate and make teching more viable that would happen for an increased fuel cost of course.

I'm too tired to write something very coherent, but here it goes: The problem with Shock troopers is that they are too easy to use. They are too effective at just charging straight into enemy fire and forcing retreats.

They are very durable.They are as durable as nearly 10 conscripts (more than 9, they have 1.5 armor but don't have the bullet magnetism of conscripts who have a >1 received accuracy modifier). Their high model count leads to low probability of model sniping as you see with charging Panzergrenadiers.

But more importantly, they deliver their devastating DPS at a range where cover bonuses do not apply anymore. Why is this a problem? Well, with the abundance of yellow cover from the midgame onward (Even a simple pineapple grenade creates enough yellow cover for a whole squad!), you will often take a lot less damage on the approach with shocktroopers eventhough you are charging over open ground. This is because you get the full benefit of yellow crater cover whilst charging. So all your opponents fancy long range DPS is severely reduced. The shock troopers close range DPS however, is not.

Protip : Flamers and HMGs completely ignore the shock troopers armor bonus. LMGs do this to a lesser extent as well. I really do not know what your problem with shock troops is. You are a pretty good player after all. Whenever i see shock troops on the field, i am happy its not more conscripts or gaurds.

Shocks have been like this for 8 months now.. And really they have been OP for all this time?

Why would you charge panzergrenadiers? Even at long range they do almost the same damage as LMG grens.

Pretty much 90% of soviets nowadays go gaurd motor.

I mean i guess shock troopers kind of do counter hardcore grenspam but conspam does that so well that shock troopers arent even really needed. But when the grens are together and supported by a 251 halftrack shock troops can't really do much (unlike gaurds and cons for example).

Captainsprice flamer pio spam shuts down shocks pretty bad from my experience.



Not going to reply to bulgakovs reply since he simply disagrees with me about game design, and thats no problem. It's kind of pathetic how he insults lenny and captainsprice for doing non meta strats though.


Also, coh 1 no blobbing. Brits and PE say hello . Who makes infantry US vs Wehr anyways? It's all about the sniper spam in that matchup

Protip : Flamers and HMGs completely ignore the shock troopers armor bonus. LMGs do this to a lesser extent as well. I really do not know what your problem with shock troops is. You are a pretty good player after all. Whenever i see shock troops on the field, i am happy its not more conscripts or gaurds.

Shocks have been like this for 8 months now.. And really they have been OP for all this time?

Why would you charge panzergrenadiers? Even at long range they do almost the same damage as LMG grens.

Pretty much 90% of soviets nowadays go gaurd motor.

I mean i guess shock troopers kind of do counter hardcore grenspam but conspam does that so well that shock troopers arent even really needed. But when the grens are together and supported by a 251 halftrack shock troops can't really do much (unlike gaurds and cons for example).

Captainsprice flamer pio spam shuts down shocks pretty bad from my experience.

You can deal with Shock Troopers fairly well with Ostheer, but with OKW it's a different story. The MG34 is doctrinal and inferior to the MG42. There are no flamers and Sturmpioneers don't have grenades nor flamethrowers and can barely deal with Shock Troopers even when they are in green cover and are able to fire from max range while the shock troopers close in. If there is any cover along the way, like a grenade crater or other forms of yellow cover, the shock troopers win. It's just a no-brainer unit that does not require good flanking or positioning to be effective and becomes extremely potent if you do actually use good flanking (unlike say, panzergrenadiers who only work well if you apply good battlefield tactics). Furthermore, Shock Troopers become laughably good with For Mother Russia and with OKW you just have to resign the entire map for 1 minute against this ability.

To counter the shock troopers you need a vehicle. However, Flak Halftracks are squishy, have poor mobility, force you into a mechanized HQ which has little utility besides the Flak HT, and are only useable on some maps because even small elevation differences just make it shoot the ground. Your only real option on most maps is the Luchs, which can turn the tides at about the 10-13 minute mark depending on your map control. However, doing the Luchs rush every game is plain boring and does now allow you to have a diverse early game (need to get trucks up fast and things like leIGs just delay them). If you want to have a more diverse early game, the easy to use shock troops just slowly push you off the field and by the time you have your delayed Luchs it's already too late because the call-ins will come soon.

You can deal with Shock Troopers fairly well with Ostheer, but with OKW it's a different story. The MG34 is doctrinal and inferior to the MG42. There are no flamers and Sturmpioneers don't have grenades nor flamethrowers and can barely deal with Shock Troopers even when they are in green cover and are able to fire from max range while the shock troopers close in. If there is any cover along the way, like a grenade crater or other forms of yellow cover, the shock troopers win. It's just a no-brainer unit that does not require good flanking or positioning to be effective and becomes extremely potent if you do actually use good flanking (unlike say, panzergrenadiers who only work well if you apply good battlefield tactics). Furthermore, Shock Troopers become laughably good with For Mother Russia and with OKW you just have to resign the entire map for 1 minute against this ability.

To counter the shock troopers you need a vehicle. However, Flak Halftracks are squishy, have poor mobility, force you into a mechanized HQ which has little utility besides the Flak HT, and are only useable on some maps because even small elevation differences just make it shoot the ground. Your only real option on most maps is the Luchs, which can turn the tides at about the 10-13 minute mark depending on your map control. However, doing the Luchs rush every game is plain boring and does now allow you to have a diverse early game (need to get trucks up fast and things like leIGs just delay them). If you want to have a more diverse early game, the easy to use shock troops just slowly push you off the field and by the time you have your delayed Luchs it's already too late because the call-ins will come soon.

I don't play OKW much but from what i see in tourneys OKW doesn't really struggle againts shock troops that much.

IS-2s later on are definately are a huge problem for OKW. You dont have PaKs to kill those IS-2s and on maps where you cant really exploit JPIV/Panther range you really struggle.

Even on a map like langres you can't really reliably kill an IS-2 as OKW. (But you really couldn't do it last patch, eitheir). Infact this patch OKW fares better againts IS-2s just because of the raketen buff.

I dont know, but supported mg-34s and the much more spammable OKW infantry (you dont have to pump hundreds of manpower into teching and healing as OKW) i think can counter shocks pretty decently.

But who cares about shock troopers really, everyone is too busy abusing dank hunters or just gaurd motor these days

You can deal with Shock Troopers fairly well with Ostheer, but with OKW it's a different story. The MG34 is doctrinal and inferior to the MG42. There are no flamers and Sturmpioneers don't have grenades nor flamethrowers and can barely deal with Shock Troopers even when they are in green cover and are able to fire from max range while the shock troopers close in. If there is any cover along the way, like a grenade crater or other forms of yellow cover, the shock troopers win. It's just a no-brainer unit that does not require good flanking or positioning to be effective and becomes extremely potent if you do actually use good flanking (unlike say, panzergrenadiers who only work well if you apply good battlefield tactics). Furthermore, Shock Troopers become laughably good with For Mother Russia and with OKW you just have to resign the entire map for 1 minute against this ability.

To counter the shock troopers you need a vehicle. However, Flak Halftracks are squishy, have poor mobility, force you into a mechanized HQ which has little utility besides the Flak HT, and are only useable on some maps because even small elevation differences just make it shoot the ground. Your only real option on most maps is the Luchs, which can turn the tides at about the 10-13 minute mark depending on your map control. However, doing the Luchs rush every game is plain boring and does now allow you to have a diverse early game (need to get trucks up fast and things like leIGs just delay them). If you want to have a more diverse early game, the easy to use shock troops just slowly push you off the field and by the time you have your delayed Luchs it's already too late because the call-ins will come soon.

Shocks have been like this for 8 months now.. And really they have been OP for all this time?

yup.

Got to agree with Bulgakov on bad design.
Smaller then coh1 maps coupled with lack of effective, reliable blob counters is a pain.

In coh1 quickly landing off-maps, instant retreat prop arty and light/medium armor that actually destroyed blobs was partial solution to the problem as the blobs were still ever present, but you had more effective tools to deal with them.

CoH2? Pinplanes, stuka zu fuss, ISU and thats pretty much it. Usually its just the bigger blob.

Agreed, we need more anti-blob units as well as mechanics, especially for the early game. Mg42 and 50 cal should be filling this role but they're not capable of handling large numbers at once, which really they should be monsters for.

I laugh every time I hear 'we need anti-blob' units when the cries for the ISU 152, 120, Demo charge nerfs have been so loud. You can't have an anti-blob weapon that uses an area of affect because it'll increase one shooting squads and that's bad I hear.

I laugh every time I hear 'we need anti-blob' units when the cries for the ISU 152, 120, Demo charge nerfs have been so loud. You can't have an anti-blob weapon that uses an area of affect because it'll increase one shooting squads and that's bad I hear.

The reason people disliked/dislike those things is because they all belong to one faction. Soviets have a plethora of 1 shot squad wipe weapons. All the other factions? Eh, not so much.

This shit lifespan is ended before shocks arrived.

And every time I said Shocks are overperforming untill now, I was called a nazi fanboy. Nice.

Overpowered = / = easy to use.

I laugh every time I hear 'we need anti-blob' units when the cries for the ISU 152, 120, Demo charge nerfs have been so loud. You can't have an anti-blob weapon that uses an area of affect because it'll increase one shooting squads and that's bad I hear.

If there only was a way to tell relic that negative zeal with exponentially or even linearly increasing rec acc penalty depending on nr of squads at certain proximity starting say from 4 squads would probably be enough.

If there only was a way to tell relic that negative zeal with exponentially or even linearly increasing rec acc penalty depending on nr of squads at certain proximity starting say from 4 squads would probably be enough.

I to, want to nerf Soviet and USF while giving Ostheer and OKW the biggest buff it's ever gotten.

I to, want to nerf Soviet and USF while giving Ostheer and OKW the biggest buff it's ever gotten.

Because axis do not blob volks+obers/call-ins hardcore like you for example or gren LMG blobs are just every allied players imagination, right?

God forbid there would be a penalty that would allow squad assaulted by a blob to have almost certain hit chance on them, right?

Because axis do not blob volks+obers/call-ins hardcore like you for example or gren LMG blobs are just every allied players imagination, right?

God forbid there would be a penalty that would allow squad assaulted by a blob to have almost certain hit chance on them, right?

Axis infantry have much more individual power in force concentration. If the de-buff starts at four you can just split your squads up into 4 man teams of LMG grens or 3 Volks with an Ober.

You can't achieve that same kind of force concentration as USF, and not that often as Soviet either. Axis players do blob, but USF is kinda forced to by the fact they only have 1 elite infantry unit inside of a doctrine.

I to, want to nerf Soviet and USF while giving Ostheer and OKW the biggest buff it's ever gotten.

We already knew that

We already knew that

I know your joking but Soviets are my favorite faction. Every commander changes your play style which is something I love.

I laugh every time I hear 'we need anti-blob' units when the cries for the ISU 152, 120, Demo charge nerfs have been so loud. You can't have an anti-blob weapon that uses an area of affect because it'll increase one shooting squads and that's bad I hear.

You misunderstand.



I'm calling for:

1) Anti-blob mechanics like negative zeal that will increase hits/suppression on blobbed units.

2) Effective EARLY GAME non-lethal (think suppression) anti-blob units that will make blobbing unattractive.


The two squad-deleter weapons you mentioned "ISU-152 and Demo" both belong to the same army. They both detract from the game's 'squad-retention is fun' ethic. I would rather that demo were removed from the game. if not it should be available for everyone. But I would really rather see it removed from the game.



The ISU-152 is not actually an anti-blob unit. It's an anti-unit unit. It deletes units one by one from range while spotting for itself. Therefore all the calls for its removal. If it only affected blobs, I wouldn't complain at all.

Demo charges are the same. They can certainly destroy a blob (which is fine, I am for that) but they can easily wipe individual units with little effort (not fine).


Why say "I laugh every time I hear"? It's not at all objective. You could say "I disagree because...". Wouldn't you prefer to have real discussions? If you adopt a mocking tone, you can probably expect less interesting replies to your posts.

I laugh every time I hear 'we need anti-blob' units when the cries for the ISU 152, 120, Demo charge nerfs have been so loud. You can't have an anti-blob weapon that uses an area of affect because it'll increase one shooting squads and that's bad I hear.

You don't need to have huge AoE killing potential in an anti-blob unit, as Bulgakov explained quite nicely.