Ostheer, the never ending struggle

My major problems with MGs are the following:

-Randomness of burst duration. Sometimes, two consecutive bursts are too short that you can simply get to cover/walk away. This is more annoying when it happens with Maxim because of small arch. Just increase the minimum durst duration a bit.

-Slow traverse speed causes microing your MG kinda pointless.

-Reload. Sometimes your MG is low on ammo from a previous engagement, when the enemy moves his blob your crew are like HOLLY SHIT WE'RE OUT OF AMMO. We've been begging Relic to fix this since the alpha. Either reload after X seconds out of combat, or add a reload button.

Since you have to rely on your MGs with Ostheer more than other factions, these problems make you feel that HMG42 is useless and stuff.

My major problems with MGs are the following:

-Randomness of burst duration. Sometimes, two consecutive bursts are too short that you can simply get to cover/walk away. This is more annoying when it happens with Maxim because of small arch. Just increase the minimum durst duration a bit.

-Slow traverse speed causes microing your MG kinda pointless.

-Reload. Sometimes your MG is low on ammo from a previous engagement, when the enemy moves his blob your crew are like HOLLY SHIT WE'RE OUT OF AMMO. We've been begging Relic to fix this since the alpha. Either reload after X seconds out of combat, or add a reload button.

Since you have to rely on your MGs with Ostheer more than other factions, these problems make you feel that HMG42 is useless and stuff.

I actually really haven't noticed that with the Maxim, but it's pretty clear with the HMG42 because sometimes rarely, it can suppress a squad on the first burst at max range without vet. For that reason it would be super awesome if the HMG42's cooldown and burst durations got flattened and rebalanced so it would act consistently, 'cause that's a super big difference.

I actually really haven't noticed that with the Maxim, but it's pretty clear with the HMG42 because sometimes rarely, it can suppress a squad on the first burst at max range without vet. For that reason it would be super awesome if the HMG42's cooldown and burst durations got flattened and rebalanced so it would act consistently, 'cause that's a super big difference.

That's exactly my point. I think that is rare with maxim because of it's better accuracy (not sure, but I think the more bullets hit the squad the more suppression the receive).
We also don't want HMG42 to insta-pin at max range. Just that you can rely on it to complete a burst and deliver a certain amount of suppression.

Ostheer is simply the most challenging, but really potent well played properly.

4 Rifles vs 4 Grens = Ost loses
4 Rifles vs 3 Grens + Mg42 = Ost wins

A lot of player fail to micro Ost properly, and wipes are far easier achieved with all other factions.

Actually you benefit far more from spamming grens then an easily countered mg. the difference between burst vs sustained damage applies here . on a 1vs1 basis the rifleman wins. but the larger the matchup becomes the more it shifts in favour for the grens. several grens firing on a riflesquad will completely wreck it within seconds. especially since rifles for the most part need to get into midrange to utilise their rahter short range weapon upgrades and thus more out of cover.

hmg's are death weight against the rifles.

hmg's are death weight against the rifles.

KEK

I will just say this: Playing against arguably bad players, 2 MGs + Sniper works very well against USF.
Just get your MG to vet 1, use the Sniper to spot, reface your Mgs to meet the blob, activate the MG ability before the blob is in sight range, and have them insta retreat their whole army.

Problem is, this is only against bad players, who move all their Rifles on one path, and most of the time don't build early vehicles for whatever reason, or use smoke/grenades.

Matchmaking is weird sometimes.

No comment on how this works agaisnt better enemys (and played by better OH players).

i could careless about the idiots who post misinformation, but there are a lot of people who read but dont post that may have their opinion changed and try to play wehr combined arms style instead of gren spam like a lot of players currently play.

Not top 10 in 1v1, therefore not "elite" so you have no say as well

Actually you benefit far more from spamming grens then an easily countered mg. the difference between burst vs sustained damage applies here . on a 1vs1 basis the rifleman wins. but the larger the matchup becomes the more it shifts in favour for the grens. several grens firing on a riflesquad will completely wreck it within seconds. especially since rifles for the most part need to get into midrange to utilise their rahter short range weapon upgrades and thus more out of cover.

hmg's are death weight against the rifles.

Update the game already.

I once built four Grens and one MG in a 1v1 on Kholodny Ferma and won against a USF player. He told me that there's "nothing USF can do about grenadier spam" and I laughed so hard.
Ahh, sometimes getting 15 loss streaks is great because your rank plummets and you get to play scrubs.

Anyway, I agree with Lemon and Cookiez about the MG42 play. I would rather face riflespam with double HMGs than face Soviet cons/T2 with double HMGs. Mortars tear your MGs apart.

I find that the early game is exceptionally difficult for Ostheer. I lost two 1v1s today due to mis-clicks, bad micro, and bugs, both of which were under ten or 15 minutes.

My HMG42 had to vacate a house due to a molotov, then a squad of partisans popped out a few seconds later. PPsH annihilated my half-health crew of four, then a retreating Gren squad.

I lost a game in about 8 minutes because my first HMG decided not to unpack in a house, so it ate two nades. That early in the game and it was all over. Not to mention I had the bug where I couldn't scroll right or down, but that wasn't that big of a deal.

MG42 just needs to be faster at aiming, acquiring targets, etc. It won't fire at a squad at max range, even if you are sighting well ahead of it. It's like the crew can't see beyond it's range; the weapon won't ready up in anticipation of an incoming squad before it gets to the arc. I imagine it's the same with every team weapon, but it's quite frustrating when you watch a rifle squad move in for five seconds before moving into the arc.

Another issue I have is access to artillery. LEFh is alright, just like the ML-20, but that's expensive and doctrinal. It's easier for Soviets to get Katyusha than it is for Ostheer to get Panzerwerfer.
If Soviet goes T2 and I have a combined arms build, I don't have easy access to rocket artillery like the Soviets.


-Or do I? Tech costs (assuming only T4 is built) is 190 fuel (45+55+60)). 205 with T1 (15 fuel for T1 building?) for Soviets it's 170 (50+120). Maybe more fuel cost is on purpose, to reflect some sort of historical lack of fuel?

With Ostheer, I find it has a very well rounded late game. Two vetted MGs can lock down late game infantry pushes. Best AT gun in the game. Best hand-held AT. Great core infantry. The problem is that Soviets have some great ways to counter all your infantry shit: flame artillery, katyusha.

If I'm holding one fuel, one VP, on muni point and a few other strat points, I find that I'm usually good with fuel. The issue is manpower. 600 manpower for all teching; 120/160/200(?) manpower for T2/3/4 building. What do Soviets pay? 320 for T3/T4, 250 for T1/T2 (I don't recall). While the Ostheer system makes it easier to back-tech and have the ability to acquire a more well-rounded force in the late game, the Soviets have the ability to get powerful units out sooner because they are forced to make choices.

There are many pros and cons to each factions teching order. It may be slower with Ostheer, but it is more balanced, while the Soviets require one to make potentially game-breaking decisions early on.

Against USF, Ostheer really struggles. You're not supposed to be losing squads and constantly reinforcing your grens. You're supposed to be inflicting casualties on the enemy from range with LMGs and super accurate mortar rounds. Grenadiers used to smash conscripts and it was unbalanced. Rifles are like uber conscripts. They will beat grenadiers at any range in equal cover, equal health, no upgrades. That, I find, is a problem. Manpower always low.

Just my two cents.

i really think the MG42 would benefit HUGELY from having a shorter teardown time; especially with how much they either don't like to follow orders or like to add additional steps onto those orders. leave the setup as but make the teardown 2 or 3 seconds.

Majority of the people think Whermacht is played like OKW, Gren spam. I guess people tend to forget Whermact is an efficient army via combined arms. You really cant expect a lone MG-42 to hold the line by itself, support the damn thing.

Majority of the people think Whermacht is played like OKW, Gren spam. I guess people tend to forget Whermact is an efficient army via combined arms. You really cant expect a lone MG-42 to hold the line by itself, support the damn thing.

The problem is, vs a USF player, you have to guard the mg with almost everything you have since they swarm you with riflemen. You most of the time need to tech before the 5 minute mark or you will get a nuisance called the m20. This requires you to push for fuel, which will result in less units protecting your mg42. Then the USF player just swifts his focus of attack towards the points you are capping, swarming you there. As you say, your mgs can't fight on their own, so they can't push whilst having their surroundings purged of Riflemen presence, or they will be hunted down once he pushed you off where you were capping before.

For example Minsk Pocket is a map you can win with double mg as Ostheer vs USF, one of the few maps you actually have a chance from the start. On that map you can have 2 mg 42s support each other by having one a bit more back, if you place them in the center, one pio squad there and you're good to go. On other maps, don't even freaking try it xd

http://www.coh2.org/replay/33464/how-allies-vs-axis-play.

Current Ostheer in effect.

Not too weak, not too strong, now pays for mistakes.

Mg42 is fine. Its the super duper usf early game that gives you people trouble, not ostheer lacking anything other than 222 still not being that much better, and FHT still being useless.

Just had a few games as Ostheer, it is just revolting how horrible your early game is compared to USF. They outswarm you, denying you teritory, scrambling for fuel is your only option and meeting riflemen that will wipe grenns if you don't always keep an eye on them. Riflemen with bars kill anything, freaking anything at range and close up, outperforming lmg42s, sniping mgs, being in buildings and keeping 2 squads occupied.

By the time you finally get a panzer 4, they have a jackson or a sherman plus the rifle anti tank nades because they had such a fuel advantage.

Honostly, if I face a USF player, I instantly drop. That faction is sickening and just an insult to balance and game design, it requires no skill, just no brain spamming and getting map dominance by simply outmassing your opponent.

Ugh, gg relic GG

I agree Ost still struggles a little bit. But the new MG and sniper and scout car all help the early game a fair bit.

Late game vs Soviet can be a pain.

Just had a few games as Ostheer, it is just revolting how horrible your early game is compared to USF. They outswarm you, denying you teritory, scrambling for fuel is your only option and meeting riflemen that will wipe grenns if you don't always keep an eye on them. Riflemen with bars kill anything, freaking anything at range and close up, outperforming lmg42s, sniping mgs, being in buildings and keeping 2 squads occupied.

By the time you finally get a panzer 4, they have a jackson or a sherman plus the rifle anti tank nades because they had such a fuel advantage.

Honostly, if I face a USF player, I instantly drop. That faction is sickening and just an insult to balance and game design, it requires no skill, just no brain spamming and getting map dominance by simply outmassing your opponent.

Ugh, gg relic GG

And how was you playing?
Grenspam?

And how was you playing?
Grenspam?

2 grens, followed by one mg, followed up by another mg, followed up by another gren squad, followed by a tech up, followed by a scout car ( I expecter m20), followed up by pak gun, followed up by stormtrooper squad, followed up by tech to tier 2, followed up by p4. Made a command post bunker as well

When someone loses to a USF player, they don't always spam grenns my dear friend

Set aside your arrogance and pride and see the USF faction for what is is, an insult to balance

I'm playing ost much more recently then USF and from my experience, 3 grens 2 MGs and whatever 6th T1 unit you want works better(no need to build it if you aren't being pressed hard). Place a teller, don't rush LMGs, save for possible fausts, if you're lucky you'll have vet1 HMG(and they vet up fast now) which is more then enough to counter USF light armor.

I'm playing ost much more recently then USF and from my experience, 3 grens 2 MGs and whatever 6th T1 unit you want works better(no need to build it if you aren't being pressed hard). Place a teller, don't rush LMGs, save for possible fausts, if you're lucky you'll have vet1 HMG(and they vet up fast now) which is more then enough to counter USF light armor.

But if he or she goes for 5 riflemen squads, 2 grens and 2mgs won't cut it, you will be hard pressed since rifles fight well at long, medium and close range.. How do you tech up? Do you rush for t2 and get a pak or do you rush for t3 and pz4 or stug?

And what if it doesn't hit the teller, you are pretty much screwed then..