Ostheer, the never ending struggle

Hi guys,

After a break I thought I would go back and see what the state of balance was after the long awaited patch. First let me say that I am pleased with what they have done, although it was less then I expected them to fix..

I have played 5 games with the USF, 5 games with the OKW, 5 games with the Red Army and 5 games with the Ostheer. I find the USF and the Red Army the best of the factions, with the USF peaking. They dind't fix anything apart from the viability of the shreck blobbing and an indirect buff for the Ostheer and some further armor tweaking here and there.

I found that the OKW has been nerfed, which I find pretty solid, but their core strenght still remains with large swoops of men. The Russian have pretty much been left unscaled apart from some minor nerfes and the USF hasn't been touched on it's sole core of spamming riflemen and charging with the hordes at all.

But then, I thought well the problem child of the game must have had some serious tweaks, some serious balance tweaks. The sniper tweak, I don't know why they did that, it can survive a direct strike from a mortar now. The mg buff I find very nice and the scout car buff as well, yet that's it? No teching adjustment (manpower), no 5th man on the gren squads, no viability in the infantry department, not even an attempt to get tier 4 for the Ostheer faction even reachable in a 1v1, unless you get games of like 40-50 minutes. Yet other factions get their late tier units a lot quicker, let us not speak of the fast shermans and jacksons due to riflemen domination.

Does anyone know when they will adjust dire matters? Anything that is more than just a few minor tweaks, after 6 months? I mean of those 5 games as Ostheer, I faced 5 USF players. I won 1 game where I had to hang on with every fighting breath to just not be overwhelmed untill I got some better armor. The other ones just saw riflemen after riflemen overwhelming me in like the first 10 minutes.

When will the Ostheer get some real love? Playing Soviets is fun, OKW and USF don't really get me going, but the Ostheer once did, not anymore. The struggle as Ostheer in the early game is still one of mortal peril, one that defines heavily on the map you get.

No teching adjustment (manpower), no 5th man on the gren squads, no viability in the infantry department, not even an attempt to get tier 4 for the Ostheer faction even reachable in a 1v1, unless you get games of like 40-50 minutes. Yet other factions get their late tier units a lot quicker, let us not speak of the fast shermans and jacksons due to riflemen domination.

The struggle as Ostheer in the early game is still one of mortal peril, one that defines heavily on the map you get.

Playing as SOVIETS is fun and enjoyable because you don't struggle. You never really struggle. If you make mistakes, as SOVIETS you're always more than capable of making a comeback. Not so with axis. Axis truly is a struggle from start to finish and you can't afford to make mistakes. Comebacks are not possible against competent SOVIETS.

I disagree,I think the mg ,pioand sniper buff completly tipped the balance scale in USF vs Ost early game.

Add in the 222 indirect buff against M20....it's A lot tougher to fight Ost as USF now as well.

Hell id go as far as saying Ost is almost my favorite faction now. The only thing I struggle with balance wise is soviet Shock rifle. IS2 is SO annoying to kill(worse than KT) unless it hits a teller, or you go for Irrelephant.

I disagree,I think the mg ,pioand sniper buff completly tipped the balance scale in USF vs Ost early game.

Add in the 222 indirect buff against M20....it's A lot tougher to fight Ost as USF now as well.

Hell id go as far as saying Ost is almost my favorite faction now. The only thing I struggle with balance wise is soviet Shock rifle. IS2 is SO annoying to kill(worse than KT) unless it hits a teller, or you go for Irrelephant.

I agree with you apart from the fact that Ostheer early game is comparable with USF. In no way, shape or form can you perform anything like the USF early with the Ostheer. Riflemen blobs are still the doom of all Ostheers early game. Unless you get a nice map in which mgs can block certain approach paths very good. USF dominates early game.

Playing as SOVIETS is fun and enjoyable because you don't struggle. You never really struggle. If you make mistakes, as SOVIETS you're always more than capable of making a comeback. Not so with axis. Axis truly is a struggle from start to finish and you can't afford to make mistakes. Comebacks are not possible against competent SOVIETS.

Ooh I enjoy the struggles now and then, but the never ending struggle gets old. You can not have any serious losses, or it is gg, as Soviets or USF you can afford losses, heck you can even call in veteran riflemen for 300 mp

I agree with you apart from the fact that Ostheer early game is comparable with USF. In no way, shape or form can you perform anything like the USF early with the Ostheer. Riflemen blobs are still the doom of all Ostheers early game. Unless you get a nice map in which mgs can block certain approach paths very good. USF dominates early game.

You can literally now spot the blob coming a mile away and you can bleed it like crazy with MG42 and new sniper with ease. Add some grens for good measure. If he goes early nades then no early light vehicles

You can literally now spot the blob coming a mile away and you can bleed it like crazy with MG42 and new sniper with ease. Add some grens for good measure. If he goes early nades then no early light vehicles

Very true! Yet if he has grenades, he has smoke, if he has smoke, he has grenades, that only takes one squad from the side to throw a nuclear pineapple and the mg is as good as dead. What does work, in some situations is a command bunker, but it won't stop the hordes comming form all side.

But when will they show the Ostheer some more love? It is still the lagging faction!

Two mg42s will completely shut down most rifleman pushes and mind gaming with snipers is really funny to watch. In addition Ostheer t3 received a decent buff considering Jacksons now require 4 shots to kill a panzer 4 or ostwind. Panzer 4s will now actually beat a Jackson if they both fire their first shot at the same time since the panzer 4 has a faster reload, but will pretty much always lose at long range since the Jackson significantly out ranges it

Two mg42s will completely shut down most rifleman pushes and mind gaming with snipers is really funny to watch. In addition Ostheer t3 received a decent buff considering Jacksons now require 4 shots to kill a panzer 4 or ostwind. Panzer 4s will now actually beat a Jackson if they both fire their first shot at the same time since the panzer 4 has a faster reload, but will pretty much always lose at long range since the Jackson significantly out ranges it

"In theory...." "PZ4 > Jackson" "MG42's > BLOBS"

Next you'll tell me Unicorns exist.

I think the only problem left with Ostheer is their lack of mobile and reliable firepower against IS-2 if they go T3. If StuG had the same penetration profile as SU-85, they would be perfect.

Well, adhering to their current design, of course.

The alternative is to do what sadly, Relic is unlikely to do: bring back the bike (as per vCoH) not the mortar bike (as per COHO)

Very true! Yet if he has grenades, he has smoke, if he has smoke, he has grenades, that only takes one squad from the side to throw a nuclear pineapple and the mg is as good as dead. What does work, in some situations is a command bunker, but it won't stop the hordes comming form all side.

But when will they show the Ostheer some more love? It is still the lagging faction!

Ok so if he comes from all directions + smoke like he's supposed to then what's supposed to happen? A USF loss?

Nuclear pineapple? Seriously, unless you have your MG teams and supporting squads engaging in Coitus instead of fighting that will not happen, and if it does just try to recrew with Pios..which is a win for you thanks to that lovely sight.

I used to sympathize with the "OST WEAK" complaints on this forum but the more I play them and play against them ESPECIALLY this patch the more I want to just ignore the balance forums altogether.

Why not learn from what you did wrong in your loss instead of blaming it on balance every single time?
Why is the first reaction after losing a couple times to make a thread "x unit too OP" "x faction is so bad"

ostheer is now tied or slightly behind USF for second best faction., behind the true unstoppable Horde faction; the soviets.

OKW is just everyones play toy
now, THEY are a constant struggle.

"In theory...." "PZ4 > Jackson" "MG42's > BLOBS"

Next you'll tell me Unicorns exist.

no i say this because i use it in 1v1 ladder.

I thought you said you were leaving for good?

Early game it is pretty tough for Ostheer.

I think the only problem left with Ostheer is their lack of mobile and reliable firepower against IS-2 if they go T3. If StuG had the same penetration profile as SU-85, they would be perfect.

Well, adhering to their current design, of course.

Atleast STUG has the target weakpoint that has 74% chance of penetrating the IS-2, but that only saves you from IS-2, for about 3 seconds

The real issue is Wehrmacht's teching costs. The call-in builds that are basically the only thing one will ever do on Wehrmacht allow them to deal with the rest of the game fine. The painful teching costs are the real issue with the Wehrmacht's early game...and of course the late-game when you're not using call-ins, but everyone already knew that.

Atleast STUG has the target weakpoint that has 74% chance of penetrating the IS-2, but that only saves you from IS-2, for about 3 seconds

Sure but for all its weaknesses STUG does deserve to be a high pen glass cannon anyway... Good alternative to Panther.

I used to sympathize with the "OST WEAK" complaints on this forum but the more I play them and play against them ESPECIALLY this patch the more I want to just ignore the balance forums altogether.

People mix up balance and map imbalances. The problem is simple, in some maps Rifles can sneak up on you and decimate your grens and MGs, and since you can't over-extent as Ostheer, you suffer a bit. But in open areas, grens in green cover will hold of everything, and on battlephase later, here comes LMG42.

There are a lot of problems with Ost (Teching being the most important one) but they are not desperate.

Ok so if he comes from all directions + smoke like he's supposed to then what's supposed to happen? A USF loss?

Nuclear pineapple? Seriously, unless you have your MG teams and supporting squads engaging in Coitus instead of fighting that will not happen, and if it does just try to recrew with Pios..which is a win for you thanks to that lovely sight.

Uhm you understand that by the time you have 2 mgs and 2 grens, they have 4 riflemen squads, they just need to let one squad be pinned, or two, and let the other ones come in from flanks. Your supporting infantry can't be everywhere. I understand you are trying to defend the USF, but such claims are out of order..