Ostheer, the never ending struggle

also north by northwest, north by northeast, south by southeast, etc...

i can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not though due to the last paragraph

That's called encirclement. Flanking is well....attacking from the flanks....there are two flanks.

Encirclement is flanking ON DRUGS.

Two mg42s will completely shut down most rifleman pushes and mind gaming with snipers is really funny to watch. In addition Ostheer t3 received a decent buff considering Jacksons now require 4 shots to kill a panzer 4 or ostwind. Panzer 4s will now actually beat a Jackson if they both fire their first shot at the same time since the panzer 4 has a faster reload, but will pretty much always lose at long range since the Jackson significantly out ranges it

I would never try a double mg build

its high risk and low reward imo

l2position

l2position

OH ...

Oh and farm the mg42 fire rate bulletins

That's called encirclement. Flanking is well....attacking from the flanks....there are two flanks.

Dude, you are being too literal. Just because flanking means attacking your opponent from the sides, doesn't mean you have to attack them from the same direction on that side.

You can flank your opponent if he is facing North, from the North East, East, South East, North West and West. There's five directions just there on both flanks. It is a lot harder to turn and face an MG to an incoming flank if the squads are approaching from the directions as described. If they are all approaching from due East or Due West then its quite easy to just turn and face the MG that way.

Am I making sense or do I have to break it down some more?

so you would have extended vision Pios, maybe with flamers,2 MGs, and two grenadiers vs four rifles and maybe an officer with RE. Is that really as impossible as you're making it out to be?

You do understand that we are talking the first 2-4 minutes here? good luck with having all of that bro. In the meanwhile soviets or USF have more units to spare and flank than you describe here, it happens every single game against USF, they have more units than you can afford, if you spam grens they will outperform you by just moving in one or two squads from a flank, if you go 2mgs you can't fight the hordes off due to the flanks and not enough grens to support you and the list goes on...

Now I am not a German fanboy by any means, I have played against USF players that greatly outperformed me, same with Russian players. But the fact is that the Ostheer is the problem child when it comes to factions, something the design of the faction, namely its teching and low soldier count squads, are repsonsible for. From the start you are hampered and have an uphill battle from the first second of the game, USF and Russians do not. I have been defeated by players from whom I know that they aren't better than me, namely friends I play with, yet they could beat me due to the fact that they were USF and I was Ostheer.

Dude, you are being too literal. Just because flanking means attacking your opponent from the sides, doesn't mean you have to attack them from the same direction on that side.

You can flank your opponent if he is facing North, from the North East, East, South East, North West and West. There's five directions just there on both flanks. It is a lot harder to turn and face an MG to an incoming flank if the squads are approaching from the directions as described. If they are all approaching from due East or Due West then its quite easy to just turn and face the MG that way.

Am I making sense or do I have to break it down some more?

You make sense and I do agree with you, but what he means is that no player will ever do such a flank. Apart from that covering 2 flanks is viable as Ostheer whilst the USF just needs 3 to overwhelm you. The Russians have the same problem when it comes down to a game that goes on any longer than 15-20 minutes. Their maxims just don't have a large cone, so they can get flanked from 2 sides very effectively by multiple squads, and apart from constant barbed wire and mines, there is nothing one can do about that apart from spamming infantry

i think you seriously underestimate the power of properly positioned MG teams. im not claiming to be a super experienced 1v1 player, but in my 20 games (and 20 wins) as ostheer in 1v1, ive gone up against people from all skill ranges and am currently rank 64 and i can say that double MG start is the way to go against USF because a suppressed squad is a combat ineffective squad. youll have the manpower advantage in fights because your MG should always suppress one squad (240 mp vs 280 mp) with the possibility of catching 2 or 3 in the AoE suppression (240 mp countering 560 or 840 mp), and flame pioneers can actually go toe to toe with rifles, and grens in cover will pretty much always deal good damage to rifles when they try to approach to medium range.

well lemon, what about the m20 or m15aaht? well, thats what MG42s are for. placing an hmg into a building not only gives it good sight range, but once it hits vet you can incind rounds to rip right through light vehicles that approach. in addition you ABSOLUTELY should place teller mines here and there, you never know when they will be useful.

well lemon, what about grenades and smoke? you can hear and see when riflemen are about to throw grenades and smoke. so pack up ur fucking mg and reposition it. have your other MG or your supporting infantry constantly shooting at squads that get close and the riflemen WILL take casualties when trying to throw nades. since pioneer sight range is higher than riflemen sight range, your mg42s should get the first burst off against them, so they dont have a chance to pre-emptively smoke unless youve kept your machine guns in the same place the whole game. units are suppressed longer than your machine gun can pack up, so use that time to reposition if they f ire off a smoke grenade. remember that if your first MG gets into a tough spot, you can always reposition the second one as well to cover.

that takes too much micro! well fucking learn to play then. your opponents were probably the same skill or lower than the ones ive gone up against.

also in regards to flanking from 4+ sides, that is just absolutely ridiculous. maps are not just flat open fields. even langres there are shotblockers and natural barriers to funnel your opponents in. in kholodny ferma, theres like a maximum of 3 feasible flanking routes whereever you are on the map because thats the way the map is designed. its extremely difficult for players to get a full encirclement going because it means that a squad has to go ALL the way around without being detected. in addition one mg covers 270 degrees, thats a lot! sure, once it starts firing its difficult for it to traverse but it also doesnt mean its impossible. in addition you should always have supporting grens and flamers to help deal with close range rifles.

^ Then I'm sure you can provide us with replays of this working vs. good US players?

^ Then I'm sure you can provide us with replays of this working vs. good US players?

Provide a replay of this not working for you. Please.

Hes also posted replays before of him using MG42 properly,and look at his ranks.

why would he lie to you?

I dont agree with the double mg strat. all it takes is one of them to retreat

i place fighting pit on cutoff, and u lose the game

Well, to be fair Lemon, we aren't all Korean gamers.

Positive stereotypes aside, I certainly like 2 HMG42s against USF as well - Gren spam feels like suicide against USF, for one...I'm definitely not as good as Lemon but I've been through most of what was just stated and agree with it.

Haven't given the new Sniper a go yet, but the Pioneer sight buff certainly makes microing 2 HMG42s a lot more feasible.

I've definitely won enough USF games with M20 rushes though to not think Wehrmacht don't need teching costs reductions.

Provide a replay of this not working for you. Please.

Hes also posted replays before of him using MG42 properly,and look at his ranks.

why would he lie to you?

Quite a shocking response coming from a 'senior strategist'. Instead of proving something works you ask others to try it out for you?

There are obvious flaws to double MG, for example the fact that only idiots will drive their m20 into an MG, wait for it to load AP and then get their vehicle destroyed. There is a reason most 'good' players do grenspam. It's easier and doesn't rely on your opponent fucking up.

Stats are meaningless in such a sample size unless he actually beat good players, which would then mean there might be replays to show me wrong. You could do 20-0 in coh1/coh2/sc2/whatever with any stupid strat but that doesn't mean it's a good one. Just means you haven't faced a good opponent.

My advice: well micro'd armored cars and halftracks + lmg42s are ostheer's biggest strength in the mid game, be sure to use green cover and houses as much as possible and keep your T1 units together. Sniper is decent if you can keep map control.

Positive stereotypes aside, I certainly like 2 HMG42s against USF as well - Gren spam feels like suicide against USF, for one...I'm definitely not as good as Lemon but I've been through most of what was just stated and agree with it.

I dont want to discredit lemon

but.

double mg's works in usf's favor and strength A good player will know how to use smoke and gain almost all the map.

fighting pits will fuck up the mg's, also a flak ht rush or m20 will force the mg;s to retreat. giving usf player enough time to tech and build fighting pits.

I saw a top 200 player try double mg's against me. game was 28 minutes and both mg's were mine

my advice is to ggren spam into one mg

get HT and pressure cuttoff

being overly defensive against the most aggresive faction the game might wwork for 20 games. But,, i guarantee it wont vs usf players that know what they are doing

I dont want to discredit lemon

but.

double mg's works in usf's favor and strength A good player will know how to use smoke and gain almost all the map.

fighting pits will fuck up the mg's, also a flak ht rush or m20 will force the mg;s to retreat. giving usf player enough time to tech and build fighting pits.

I saw a top 200 player try double mg's against me. game was 28 minutes and both mg's were mine

my advice is to ggren spam into one mg

get HT and pressure cuttoff

being overly defensive against the most aggresive faction the game might wwork for 20 games. But,, i guarantee it wont vs usf players that know what they are doing

Isn't waiting for HT enough time for Wehrmacht to get a Pak out and probably bunker their fuel though? I certainly know M20 rush is going to mess up HMGs.

Double HMGs is definitely useless on the WFA-release 1v1 maps though. Waaaaaaayyyyyyyy too many buildings. The design of many of the maps is definitely another sore spot in Wehr early-game woes.

I do double MG double pio double gren with maybe a sniper almost every game and it works for me.
There is no obvious flaw in that build at all unless you spread out too much too early, or just get unlucky.

I have not lost to USF at all since this patch while being Ost,and its been a while since ive lost to them at all.(at least 10 games vs USF lost count) Part of the reason I dont mind playing VS usf is because ive played as them so much I know what works against me,and what i struggle with.

What makes me "struggle" is good MG play, Ostheer players that actually use combined arms,and LMG spam CAS.


MG42 Incendiary kills both AAHT and M20 in two bursts....so its hardly "only idiots that drive into an MG" especially when its in a building in an important part of the map. More like try to be aggressive at all with that vehicle and its dead,from JUST an MG42.

Also I never asked anyone to try anything for me.. reread what I wrote before assaulting me(kappa) I asked you to provide a replay of this somehow not working for you(it works for me).

You and the other "ostheer sucs" are the ones being stubborn and just saying "OH THAT DOESNT WORK NO NO NO ur wrong USF UNSTOPPABLEEEE!!" when people that are proving,with video evidence,and their own stats and experiences that it does in fact work. Its just hard at times depending on the map(which is a MAP problem,not an OST problem),ill agree with that,and that only.

sure i can go 20-0 against rank 2000s, but that means my actual rank wont go up, ive played against decent players, and obviously thats reflected in me being ranked 60 something.

another interesting point that i forgot is that hmgs almost forces usf to tech grenades which delays usf light vehicles and such.

think you guys would be surprised just how effective mg42s are against units in structures. for example, an mg42 can pretty effectively eject a squad from the church in kholodny ferma if youre shooting from the truck to the right of it.

i also mentioned using flamer pios to eject squads from buildings.

queenratchet we can do a 1v1 again if you really think this double mg strat doesnt work.