Forwarded base and OKW trucks territory mechanism

I remember the first time ever I played vs OKW last year, I pushed hard to decap the territory where he put his T1 truck, I thought I would win the game since he could not use it anymore without capping back the territory...
I guess you know the story, I don't remember if I won the game at the end but I felt really disappointed when I saw him able to reinforce and heal around the truck without capping back the territory.

I don't really understand the mechanism, or absence of mechanism to have all type of FHQ and OKW trucks fully working while the territory they belong to is not anymore friendly.
I learn that at the beginning during the Alpha, OKW was so hard to play, it requires it to save it from being completely scrap. But now?

In Coh1, Brit could be hardly push back with this mechanism, same if you couldn't destroy the truck, it was a kind of soft counter. The truck was losing life over time if you didn't pack it back and move it. OKW truck cannot be moved from their deployment location, but it just need to remove the over time damage penalty. The truck can stay here until the player cap the territory again.
As for FHQ, if I remember well, USF and Wehrm FHQ get disable, PE one as well (or partially) if not anymore in friendly territory.

So why not in Coh2. What would you think being a good reason for that?

If disabling entirely the truck is too punitive, I guess special abilities could be. So you still can produce unit belonging to the truck but you cannot reinforce / heal from the T1, repair from T2 and the T3 gun get disable.
FHQ get simply disable and (don't know if it is possible yet) your opponent is able to decap the FHQ like in Coh1.

It should stop the production capabilities of truck, not utility ones.

OKW is more balanced curently. I can't see any reason for further faction nerfs atm.

The way people continue to imagine more and more nerfs for this faction is actually astounding.

OKW is more balanced curently. I can't see any reason for further faction nerfs atm.

The way people continue to imagine more and more nerfs for this faction is actually astounding.

Don't really know why you call it nerf. The faction would remain exactly the same.

Can you develop?

Yeah, it's just another way roung, cutting of its sector stops it from producing units but not from using its abilities. That way trucks are reliable and at the same time cutting them of is usefull. Or at least it was when obers were I win button and you had to do all you could to prevent them from building.

Btw does anybody know if heer bunkers work on cutof territory? I'm pretty sure healing works but I dont know about reinforcing.

Don't really know why you call it nerf. The faction would remain exactly the same.

Can you develop?

Ofc it's a nerf, truckhugging is currently best way for okw to live long enough to get panther or KT. Otherwise they're quite screwed.

Don't really know why you call it nerf. The faction would remain exactly the same.

Can you develop?

If you have a car factory and except performing repairs I won't let you do anything else aka produce cars, would this be a nerf to your business?

What you propose will result in cutting okw's any initiative because it will hug the trucks all game in order to avoid decaping. If we think at partisans, paras, and other units that can just be dropped in, things are getting even worst. Let's say you successfuly do an attack and, because your OPness of you okw units ( ) - not skill, God Forbid - you drove you opponent back. Then, instead capping your deserved teritorry, you will have to retreat to your truck just because your "skillfull" wonder-opponent who just lost the engagement, will drop a Paras unit near your T2 truck and decap point. Or will spawn a partisan unit to do the same thing. If there is a T2, then your retreat attempt may work. If it's T3, it's bye bye.
Building defenses around every field deployed truck? No thanks.

What you want in fact is OKW building its tiers inside base. No thanks again. Deploying trucks on the field is one of the features that makes OKW interesting.

Don't forget that british trucks had some other features related to resources and teritorry securing that balanced things. OKW trucks have no such features. They are just buildings deployed outside base, except for T4 which is a stronghold.

Depending on the map it would be a like a nerf. It would discourage okw-players from placing the healing-truck in an offensive position (this would nullify the effect of this change) and it could make it impossible to hold ground against us-rifleblobs, or allied earlygame-advantage...
It would also force the okw-player to produce more and more volks to cap the territory back, because then he would not be able to produce indirect-fire or the tankdestroyer to effectively fight enemy armor or infantry.

I realy don´t know why this kind of mechanic would be any good, because those trucks are mostly a big stationary target and both, us and sowiets, have more then enough tools to take them down quickly + if you are able to cut his fhq off, he is already in a bad position anyway and further gimping okw would only add to the earlygame-advantage of the allies.

It's irritating that everything functions at 100% yeah. It wouldn't really affect balance much but I'd be ok with making them unable to produce new units, at minimum, if the sector was decapped. If they can't keep the sector they planted it on, they deserve to have production halted.

Isn't the whole deal here that if you put your trucks up front you risk getting punished? So if you continued to not punish (counter) this behaviour wouldn't it just be a L2P issue rather than nerf this and nerf that issue?

As other people have said it depends on the maps. I play 2v2 and I find that being aggressive on smaller maps with trucks comes with the risk of getting bombarded by 120mm mortars, ZIS and Priests. And if I'm not mistakening the new improved Guards unit can actually make a rather quick work of the trucks.

Besides they just got nerfed and a now taking more damage when they're not unpacked.

I don't really see the need for this nerf.

Wehr Command bunkers still works in uncapped/enemy territory. Soviet FHQ works in all types of territory and can even be constructed in enemy territory. USF ambulance only works in friendly, but it can move. OKW can't move their truck so it should also work if the enemy has taken the territory.

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Isn't already possible with falls? All what you describe. I mean, it would rehabilitate some doctrines. Having Partisans means no IS2. So I can't really call it a nerf in this case, just a trade off.

When I say it is not a nerf, I mean you are not downgrading anything OKW faction has already. But it changes its gameplay for sure. So instead of a mass attack with all what you have, I guess you leave a volks squad to prevent sneaky actions from the enemy if he has select Airborn or Partisan doctrines.

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Actually OKW can place an early med truck offensively without being punished before Sov build a Zis or USF spend fuel in a Half-track or captain. And here again the truck last enough long for you to counter attack.
But the concept of being that much offensive with no fear of downside is what I don't really understand with FHQ working on neutral territories.

But yes maybe it would be too much. It wasn't in Coh, I have hard time believing it would be in Coh2.

Isn't already possible with falls?

Falls are very expensive and even if you can spawn them deep in enemy lines they will kill units, not disable your production.

When I say it is not a nerf, I mean you are not downgrading anything OKW faction has already. But it changes its gameplay for sure. So instead of a mass attack with all what you have, I guess you leave a volks squad to prevent sneaky actions from the enemy if he has select Airborn or Partisan doctrines.

Basically I'll sacrifice some manpower just to defend my truck/trucks in order to eather build units that will have the sole purpose to stay back, eather build defenses. Can't this be achieved by just increasing some units' costs instead assigning patrols?

Falls are very expensive and even if you can spawn them deep in enemy lines they will kill units, not disable your production.



Basically I'll sacrifice some manpower just to defend my truck/trucks in order to eather build units that will have the sole purpose to stay back, eather build defenses. Can't this be achieved by just increasing some units' costs instead assigning patrols?

Jaeger are less expensive
I'm agreeing that disabling the production is a hard outcome for this mechanism. So like I said, just disabling trucks abilities but not productivity.

But well, it was working pretty fine in coh, I can't see it breaking that much the gameplay in coh2.

Actually OKW can place an early med truck offensively without being punished before Sov build a Zis or USF spend fuel in a Half-track or captain. And here again the truck last enough long for you to counter attack.
But the concept of being that much offensive with no fear of downside is what I don't really understand with FHQ working on neutral territories.

No fear of a downside? Realy? Ever played okw?

If you decide to place the fhq offensively there is a risk that it gets blownup before it is fully unpacked, just by small-arms-fire. If it is fully unpacked it can be bombarded by mortars, you have to spend another 300 manpower to turn it into a forward retreatpoint, this also takes some time. If you have your forward retreat set up, there is always the risk that you retreat your troops and they are killed by enemy mg/mortar/flamer/whatever.

But yes maybe it would be too much. It wasn't in Coh, I have hard time believing it would be in Coh2.

In coh1 those trucks had also additional functions... and the brits where defensive .

Jaeger are less expensive

And less effective

No fear of a downside? Realy? Ever played okw?

If you decide to place the fhq offensively there is a risk that it gets blownup before it is fully unpacked, just by small-arms-fire. If it is fully unpacked it can be bombarded by mortars, you have to spend another 300 manpower to turn it into a forward retreatpoint, this also takes some time. If you have your forward retreat set up, there is always the risk that you retreat your troops and they are killed by enemy mg/mortar/flamer/whatever.

In coh1 those trucks had also additional functions...

What makes people bombarding it? lack of soft counter. Don't you think people try to destroy it to cutoff your production or because a rally point that heal and reinforce in the middle of the map is a pain in the ass to deal with?

If I have the opportunity to disable its abilities, faster than destroying it, I'll disable its abilities and many people will do the same. And you it gives you more time to take back the territory and get it before its destruction.
If the truck isn't used aggressively you'll not face this situation. Does OKW only need to use it aggressively to win a match. No.
Does it forbid OKW to play aggressively to win a match, no, but it gives more gameplay around it.

Now think I'm only talking about gameplay, not balance - so of course if those mechanisms have to come live, a balance design would be necessary to make sure the faction doesn't become rubbish because of it.

What makes people bombarding it? lack of soft counter. Don't you think people try to destroy it to cutoff your production or because a rally point that heal and reinforce in the middle of the map is a pain in the ass to deal with?

If I see the okw-player retreats units, I try to let my mortar finish them off. Simple.

It´s a "pain in the..." and so you want an easy way to take the pain away?

If I have the opportunity to disable its abilities, faster than destroying it, I'll disable its abilities and many people will do the same. And you it gives you more time to take back the territory and get it before its destruction.
If the truck isn't used aggressively you'll not face this situation. Does OKW only need to use it aggressively to win a match. No.
Does it forbid OKW to play aggressively to win a match, no, but it gives more gameplay around it.

It would give allies further earlygameadvantage and okw would have an even higher risk, resulting in more and more defensive playstyles and okw is not meant to play defensive...

Now think I'm only talking about gameplay, not balance - so of course if those mechanisms have to come live, a balance design would be necessary to make sure the faction doesn't become rubbish because of it.

You want to tweak corefunctions of the faction that is a "pain in the ..." for you to deal with.
This mechanic is not only about gameplay, it directly affects balance.

Just try playing okw for a few games and see things from the other side of the table.

The only field reinforcement mechanic for OKW is their FHQ, USF has ambulance -which is mobile and easy to place near your borders-, Soviets has merge -which is neglected but useful- and M5, and Ostheer has both HT and bunkers. So a reliable forward reinforcement is needed for OKW which is their FHQ.

This has been discussed before, countering their base rush is not that big of a deal. You just want them to deploy all of their trucks in their base.

Sov merge isn't really considered as field reinforcement as you can't keep the field presence by using it, squad needs to retreat anyway, you just have more choice over which one exactly.

Ambulance can move, but its hardy mobile(a car with mobility of KT, except slower).

Ost is the only faction with real on field reinforcement, OKW creates rather forward stronghold then field reinforcement platform.

I would recommend playing more than 1 game of OKW before asking to radically change one of the core elements of the faction. OKW's early game weakness makes the BG HQ often very necessary in order to keep field presence and on the lines fighting as long as possible.

If your fighting a player who put a forward med truck up just use it to your advantage and concentrate all your indirect on it to wipe squads on retreat.