CAS needs adjusted

The power of CAS is not the fuel conversion for strikes. You can quickly gain acces to ammo for lmg42 and shrecks. So this commander is not only good in teamgames but also in 1vs1.

I was the first one here on these forums to raise this issue. All the fanboys jumped on me.

Another simple solution.

Rewarding killing planes for the allied.
Option 1. Gives the ability ammo cost as reward to the allied player who shot down the plane.
Option 2. Put a long cool down to all stuka stafe abilities if one is shot down.

Of course, gives the sov aa ht capability as usf aa ht has.

I don't think this commander needs any kind of rework.

If somebody goes heavy inf spam with ammo upgrades, go for AI (demos, mines, indirect fire etc). He won't have the fuel to get out tanks soon so punish him by countering his inf.

Skillplanes are relatively easy to dodge. The AT strafe will be used against vehicles (obviously).

Vehicles can easily dodge this strafe because of their speed. If you have Kayusha (or any kind of mobile arty) somewhere you should simply move it as soon as you see a recon plane.

The AT strafe will cause heavy damage on tanks that stay in its target area. Even a small move can cause this ability to miss most of its shots and thus cause relatively low damage.

The AI strafe is harder to dodge because your inf is slower than vehicles. BUT this strafe will not cause any trouble if you don't have a giant blob moving arond the map.

Both, the AI and AT strafe, are fine IMO considering their small target area and the fact that you will be warned by a recon flight.

The Stuka Dive Bomb is also not that strong. It's an expensive counter for static arty (180MU or 50 fuel in this doctrine + recon plane) and can only be used against targets like support weapons or slow vehicles that got engine damage. Again, if you see a recon plane, just move possible targets like Katyushas, repairing vehicles etc.

It is definitely some extra work to look for recon planes on the mini-map but that's not a big issue.

Both single passes are indicated by red flares that should inform you in time (in case your unit is at the frontline already and thus spotted by enemy units without recon plane - you should have an eye on your units in battle anyway and I think they inform the player by voice most of the time as well).

Just finished a match where the stuka AT strafe killed a 90% hp ISU-152 in one pass

lolz

Just finished a match where the stuka AT strafe killed a 90% hp ISU-152 in one pass

lolz

I once saw a game where an Il-2 bombing run finished off a Tiger!1!111!!!!


Guess what? That's what happens if you don't move your shit when the red flares drop...

Jump back to quoted post5 Apr 2015, 20:53 PMArclyte

Just finished a match where the stuka AT strafe killed a 90% hp ISU-152 in one pass

lolz

I once saw a game where an Il-2 bombing run finished off a Tiger!1!111!!!!


Guess what? That's what happens if you don't move your shit when the red flares drop...

There's a key difference in what the two of you are implying.

Also, you know, over double a munitions cost...

Well if 'Playing well' Is the counter, Then its good balance, Its nether too easy to pull off nor too easy to counter.

That is where you are wrong.
When you need to play 'well' to counter your opponents mindless lmg and shrek blob and clicky offmaps, thats not balanced, but unbalanced.

...

Threads about CAS has been posted at least 2 times before on this forum. Please stop. They wont do anything about it.

Just close this thread already

That is where you are wrong.
When you need to play 'well' to counter your opponents mindless lmg and shrek blob and clicky offmaps, thats not balanced, but unbalanced.

Just playing "well" (or paying attention to what's going on) to counter something is still better than needing a specific doctrinal unit to counter something.

That is where you are wrong.
When you need to play 'well' to counter your opponents mindless lmg and shrek blob and clicky offmaps, thats not balanced, but unbalanced.

Kat Truck. They stop blobs. So dose Shock rifle frontline and ISU.
If you are unable to stop a blob with the correct tools then i really don't know what to say.

I once saw a game where an Il-2 bombing run finished off a Tiger!1!111!!!!


Guess what? That's what happens if you don't move your shit when the red flares drop...

It didn't "finish off" the ISU, it one shotted it. And you can't really avoid the strafe, it follows its target.

People like you are the reason these forums are a joke

It didn't "finish off" the ISU, it one shotted it. And you can't really avoid the strafe, it follows its target.

People like you are the reason these forums are a joke

The single AT strafe doesn't follow it's target, the CAS ability does. It's the Ostheer version of the P47

Threads about CAS has been posted at least 2 times before on this forum. Please stop. They wont do anything about it.

Just close this thread already

yep. which means ppl are keep having problems with this. it not like ppl started complaining about this as soon as it came out. like your little ober thread.

Why don't the plaintiffs cut the crap and assertively tell what their issue with CAS truly is.

Is it the fuel to munitions conversion? You remove this feature, you effectively bury this doctrine, as it is all about spamming air strikes. Do you realize how expensive they are? this doctrine cannot be viable without the fuel to munitions conversion. You can't spam the loitering anti tank strafe from lighting war or blitzkrieg, you will be able too use a couple of times, same goes for the loitering pin plane.
Is it the strafes? Their effectiveness is heavily map dependant and situational.
Is it the planes crashing? Which by the way is not the doctrines fault. All planes behave this way and it's pure RNG, so it's fair, can crash on anyone. If you have an issue with this go complain on this thread.

I read "CAS OP in 3v3 and up" being thrown out a lot on this thread. Let's address the huge elephant in the room. Well if the ones having a beef with CAS won't tell what their actual issue is, we won't move forward and will just keep going on circles. I will tell what it is. Fairly easy to deduce by reading between the lines.

Simply put: You have issues dealing with CAS. As in you're inexperienced and don't know how to respond to this tactic. It's not a balance issue. This should be moved to the strategy section. And honestly most of those throwing the "CAS OP" accusations have a very average ranking and skill and some have admitted to having poor micro...

I've never seen top 50 teams struggle against multiple CAS. I have played against Top 50 teams using CAS, it's strong but I've never blamed the loss on CAS being OP, after dozens of games against it you start getting used to and intuitively adapt, pick up some good habits.

Last time I tried with my buddies to pull out the goofy strat of 3 CAS players and 1 OKW spec ops for flares. Worked on the newbies but against good teams like Go Hard clan, OKW clan, TTT clan (Dirk Deagler's team) etc.. The multiple CAS strat did not work at all, we got wrecked mid game as it leaves you exposed to early armour rushes and they constantly killed our munitions cashes instead of facing the shreck blobs and lmg blops head on early game. Midgame, once they had katyushas and a decent medium tank force they started thinning out our blobs. 10 cps is a long way to go as CAS is a late game doctrine. And top teams know this and exploit this weakness ruthlessly.

Actually, even trying to kill enemy katyusha trucks or priests with the JU-87 anti-tank strafe against a good team is hard to pull off, as they reposition their mobile arty often, keep tabs on it and can often dodge the strafes. The strafe is not a guaranteed success in these match-ups.

4v4 maps tend do be large enough to give you a decent reaction time window. It's all about game sense and situational awareness, if you're in the edges, well take into consideration that the strafes will be much more accurate. I Won't speak about 2v2 as I rarely play that mode, maybe it is too strong on there.

Ultimately this is a skill issue you people are having. I never see the ladder kings whining in the forums. Ever seen QQ post by Jesulin, OMG Pop, Giap, Go hard clan, SOE Clan or OKW clan whining about something being OP? No they suck it up and improve, and so should you.

Believing that CAS is a broken commander is a fallacy, just forum warriors that had a couple of loses against CAS and from their individual viewpoint persuaded themselves the doctrine is bat-shit OP when maybe they screwed up, got outplayed or RNG screwed em. In a game where RNG is so influential on the outcome of a match. You need to play at least 50 games to identify a recurrent problematic pattern that is credible, as after 50 games you should have adapted and figured out a counter. I doubt any of the plaitiffs have played 50 team games since the patch came out.

CAS is a strong, viable commander, it's not OP nor broken. PTRS seem to be a problematic issue on the other hand, see the difference.

yep. which means ppl are keep having problems with this. it not like ppl started complaining about this as soon as it came out. like your little ober thread.

People have problems with this commander because it's a micro test. And the fuel to munitions conversion exists on other commanders, and Luftwaffe supply is arguably better for team games because you can give your team mates fuel and muni for only MP.

Why don't the plaintiffs cut the crap and assertively tell what is their issue with CAS truly is.

Is it the fuel to munitions conversion? You remove this feature, you effectively bury this doctrine, as it is all about spamming air strikes. Do you realize how expensive they are? this doctrine cannot be viable without the fuel to munitions conversion. You can't spam the loitering anti tank strafe from lighting war or blitzkrieg, you will be able too use a couple of times, same goes for the loitering pin plane.
Is it the strafes? Their effectiveness is heavily map dependant and situational.
Is it the planes crashing? Which by the way is not the doctrines fault. All planes behave this way and it's pure RNG, so it's fair, can crash on anyone. If you have an issue with this go complain on this thread.

I read "CAS OP in 3v3 and up" being thrown out a lot on this thread. Let's address the huge elephant in the room. Well if the ones having a beef with CAS won't tell what their actual issue is, we won't move forward and will just keep going on circles. I will tell what it is. Fairly easy to deduce by reading between the lines.

Simply put: You have issues dealing with CAS. As in you're inexperienced and don't know how to respond to this tactic. It's not a balance issue. This should be moved to the strategy section. And honestly most of those throwing the "CAS OP" accusations have a very average ranking and skill and some have admitted to having poor micro...

I've never seen top 50 teams struggle against multiple CAS. I have played against Top 50 teams using CAS, it's strong but I've never blamed the loss on CAS being OP, after dozens of games against it you start getting used to and intuitively adapt, pick up some good habits.

Last time I tried with my buddies to pull out the goofy strat of 3 CAS players and 1 OKW spec ops for flares. Worked on the newbies but against good teams like Go Hard clan, OKW clan, TTT clan (Dirk Deagler's team) etc.. The multiple CAS strat did not work at all, we got wrecked mid game as it leaves you exposed to early armour rushes and they constantly killed our munitions cashes instead of facing the shreck blobs and lmg blops head on early game. Midgame, once they had katyushas and a decent medium tank force they started thinning out our blobs. 10 cps is a long way to go as CAS is a late game doctrine. And top teams know this and exploit this weakness ruthlessly.

Actually, even trying to kill enemy katyusha trucks or priests with the JU-87 anti-tank strafe against a good team is hard to pull off, as they reposition their mobile arty often, keep tabs on it and can often dodge the strafes. The strafe is not a guaranteed success in these match-ups.

4v4 maps tend do be large enough to give you a decent reaction time window. It's all about game sense and situational awareness, if you're in the edges, well take into consideration that the strafes will be much more accurate. I Won't speak about 2v2 as I rarely play that mode, maybe it is too strong on there.

Ultimately this is a skill issue you people are having. I never see the ladder kings whining in the forums. Ever seen QQ post by Jesulin, OMG Pop, Giap, Go hard clan, SOE Clan or OKW clan whining about something being OP? No they suck it up and improve, and so should you.

Believing that CAS is a broken commander is a fallacy, just forum warriors that had a couple of loses against CAS and from their individual viewpoint persuaded themselves the doctrine is bat-shit OP when maybe they screwed up, got outplayed or RNG screwed em. In a game where RNG is so influential on the outcome of a match. You need to play at least 50 games to identify a recurrent problematic pattern that is credible, as after 50 games you should have adapted and figured out a counter. I doubt any of the plaitiffs have played 50 team games since the patch came out.

CAS is a strong, viable commander, it's not OP nor broken. PTRS seem to be a problematic issue on the other hand, see the difference.

cool essay pop.

i am in multiple top 50 AT rank in 3v3+. i struggle with CAS. so do my teammates. not saying we lose shits to CAS commanders, but the shear effort you put in to 'counter' such noobish strategy makes me bored and frustrated. i rather fight tiger or ele. this is my personal opinion of course and i will dress it up as such, unlike you, who dresses up one's opinion like a fact.

beat ttt multiple of times, got beaten by them multiple times. okw clan? do they even have good players? because any okw clan we've met, we've never had a good game.

cool essay pop.

i am in multiple top 50 AT rank in 3v3+. i struggle with CAS. so do my teammates. not saying we lose shits to CAS commanders, but the shear effort you put in to 'counter' such noobish strategy makes me bored and frustrated. i rather fight tiger or ele. this is my personal opinion of course and i will dress it up as such, unlike you, who dresses up one's opinion like a fact.

beat ttt multiple of times, got beaten by them multiple times. okw clan? do they even have good players? because any okw clan we've met, we've never had a good game.

Check the ladders. You'll have your answer there. There's OKW members on the top 10 teams for either factions. Also I don' see you in any top 75 teams on the ladders.

So you're frustrated by CAS? You know that's completely understandable, people get frustrated, and well they have to deal with it. But that does not warrant CAS being nerfed. This thread has nothing to do with balance, it belongs in the strategy sub-forum.

Lastly, try to play the argument, not the man, ad hominem attacks won't make your case.

Check the ladders. You'll have your answer there. There's OKW members on the top 10 teams for either factions. Also I don' see you in any top 75 teams on the ladders.

So you're frustrated by CAS? You know that's completely understandable, people get frustrated, and well they have to deal with it. But that does not warrant CAS being nerfed. This thread has nothing to do with balance, it belongs in the strategy sub-forum.

Lastly, try to play the argument, not the man, ad hominem attacks won't make your case.

Now mirror this on the USF side. A p47 one shotting tanks if they DARE get snared and or dont move! Constant infantry Pins and unlimited BAR spam. Wouldnt be pretty and the forum would be on fire about it.

The best offmap in game as far as Artillery goes is the Mechanized commander for USF IMHO. It CAN kill tanks. It takes 10 seconds to land. To kill tanks it must hit them over several seconds. Not Hey here is smoke move now or DEAD now!

Thats I think is everybodys problems with CAS that and the strafe can kill more than just tanks.

I mean Mech would be pretty strong if I could just spam its offmap all day too I suppose.

Now mirror this on the USF side. A p47 one shotting tanks if they DARE get snared and or dont move! Constant infantry Pins and unlimited BAR spam. Wouldnt be pretty and the forum would be on fire about it.

The best offmap in game as far as Artillery goes is the Mechanized commander for USF IMHO. It CAN kill tanks. It takes 10 seconds to land. To kill tanks it must hit them over several seconds. Not Hey here is smoke move now or DEAD now!

Thats I think is everybodys problems with CAS that and the strafe can kill more than just tanks.

I mean Mech would be pretty strong if I could just spam its offmap all day too I suppose.

I have no intention to go on circles about this issue. I made my case, it's a L2P issue.

A p47 one shotting tanks if they DARE get snared and or dont move!

So you did not micro your tank by either not paying attention or putting it into panzerfaust range, consequently got punished for doing a mistake; yet you find that unfair?! You lost a tank, replace it and pay more attention next time.

Constant infantry pins.

If good soviet commanders had propaganda artillery you would see axis infantry pins more often. Also, the pin strafe only punishes blobbing, which is great IMO. 60 munitions to pin a single squad seems fair. If it pins your whole blob its your fault.

Unlimited bar spam

due to transferring fuel into munitions means fewer Jacksons or Shermans, just get tanks and wrecks the bar blob.

The best offmap in game as far as Artillery goes is the Mechanized commander for USF IMHO. It CAN kill tanks. It takes 10 seconds to land. To kill tanks it must hit them over several seconds. Not Hey here is smoke move now or DEAD now!

You do realize that off map artielly is supposed to counter static play, not tanks hence the 10 secons delay. Use it on OKW trucks, pak 43s or howitzers... the JU-87 anti tank strafe is meant to counter tanks...

So we have made full circle yet again to the root of the issue, people need to get better at dealing with this commander.