I enjoy playing guards now, they are good inf now, not a laughing stock.
The problem is spamming, they are no penalty when spam ball face a machine gun.
For example yesterday I had 50 cal on the Moscow Outskirts, and my opponent came with 4 Volk units straight at it.
You know the outcome!
There should be negative penalty when you group your units together and move across the map. Maybe add negative cover (red shield) when you have 3-4 units moving together
PTRS now OP?
9 Apr 2015, 08:10 AM
#561
Posts: 49
9 Apr 2015, 08:11 AM
#562
1 
Posts: 440
Yeah, I don't understand where KurtWilde's animosity came from, and trying to actually provide a reasoned argument including multiple perspectives was just exhausting my time.
I am like bruce banner, i am always pissed
But seriously there was / is no animosity and i admire the fact that you tried to argue back logically.
However while I admit that Cons PTRS package should not have the same stats as guards, I dont think stopping a cons blob is that hard, for example compared to pre-patch OKW Volks blob
9 Apr 2015, 08:31 AM
#563
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
Not really a single reason why PTRS should be any different here.
Which is why the PTRS as weapon needs to be toned down vs infantry and not re-invented as a different weapon for conscripts.
PTRS is an AT weapon. Relic should change it to fullfill its purpose, aka tone it down to intitial stats and then increase its penetration.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
9 Apr 2015, 09:13 AM
#564
1 Posts: 440
Panzershreck is no different on volks or pgrens.
Bazooka is exactly the same on paratroopers, rifles and RETs.
Not really a single reason why PTRS should be any different here.
Oh ok, i didn't think of that. You are correct
9 Apr 2015, 09:24 AM
#565
3 
Posts: 587
I think the solution is to increase the cost of Conscript PTRS since the anti-tank commander seems to be the sole problem for all of this
( How about we make PTRS back to the piece of crap it was, but give it 33% chance to stun any vehicle with a successful hit, so you could pin enemy armored divisions with it, or snipe off the tracks and immobilize panthers and stuff
)
( How about we make PTRS back to the piece of crap it was, but give it 33% chance to stun any vehicle with a successful hit, so you could pin enemy armored divisions with it, or snipe off the tracks and immobilize panthers and stuff
)
9 Apr 2015, 09:24 AM
#566
Posts: 1439
Which is why the PTRS as weapon needs to be toned down vs infantry and not re-invented as a different weapon for conscripts.
PTRS is an AT weapon. Relic should change it to fullfill its purpose, aka tone it down to intitial stats and then increase its penetration.
Yes, please Relic make PTRS a valid AT weapon.
Although I would like to point out you may not like this change.
9 Apr 2015, 10:15 AM
#567
Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1
Yes, please Relic make PTRS a valid AT weapon.
Although I would like to point out you may not like this change.
If PTRS becomes an AT only weapon, goodby Guards. Guard are actually doing fine because the can counter light armor and prevent mediums from rushing your troops. Just Button and watch them do their job. With the buff, even without DPs they can damage infantry, and can counter MGs, PAKs and mortars, Which in my opinion is fine. Even for partisans it's really interesting, bring in partisans and use them as Weapon Team destroyers. They are actually performing as Anti-Material weapons (I'm not arguing IRL or history, just pointing out this mechanic is interesting)
But the same AT/AT and anti-team weapon damage for cons is the problem. So, units who have access to PTRS should act more or less like Elite infantry. Guards do (Unrelated, but DP-28 Drop chance should get nerfed). Cons on the other hand, they become abusive.
9 Apr 2015, 10:44 AM
#568
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
Although I would like to point out you may not like this change.
I'm sorry to disapoint you
but I would actualy do despite the fact that some people here count me (maybe) as a "nazi fanboy" or whatever other name in their narrow minds.Soviets don't have an AT weapon carried by infantry that perform well which is why the PTRS needs a better performance in that respect not become the AI weapon of doom. And this better AT performance can translate into better penetration in such way that it will have greater possibility to harm medium tanks too, without inflicting to much damage (I'n not thinking at one PTRS voley = 1PZIV killed
). When hitting rear armor maybe it should have a good chance to inflict a crit too. That would not be unbalanced because you will be able to counter such units (even if they will mass in blobs) with proper AI infantry instead trying to combat them with vehicles.
I still fail to understand why this isn't the direction towards PTRS was developed by Relic.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
9 Apr 2015, 11:43 AM
#569
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Today I stopped PTRS Cons blob + 1-2 Shocks in 2v2. I needed 2 MGs, 1 Mortar, 3 Grens with LMG, halftruck, S-mines. With this I stopped every single wave with almost zero losses.
9 Apr 2015, 13:01 PM
#570
Posts: 742 | Subs: 1
Today I stopped PTRS Cons blob + 1-2 Shocks in 2v2. I needed 2 MGs, 1 Mortar, 3 Grens with LMG, halftruck, S-mines. With this I stopped every single wave with almost zero losses.
Mobility of your solution, 0 ? ;D
9 Apr 2015, 13:11 PM
#571
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Mobility of your solution, 0 ? ;D
Set yourself by the line of VP, wait for attack, force retreat, move in grens to decap, place MGs little further, don't be greedy, don't advance too much, get back to MG line, have 251 behind and pios nearby for reinforcement and MG repairs.
You don't need to worry about the map control(and therefore mobility) that much, because its 2v2 and you have OKW partner for a reason there.
I don't use mortar or mines, but mines actually sounds good for flank protection.
You don't need LMGs with this setup, because you are suppose to outlast, not outdps opponents and suppressed cons can't fight back.
What he said is reasonable and similar to what I use.
2 HMGs, pios and 251 is the key here.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
9 Apr 2015, 14:05 PM
#572
Posts: 593
funny how u give ptrs 5% accuracy and everyone wants to nerf it now lmao.... its fine just needs costs increase by 10
9 Apr 2015, 14:06 PM
#573
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Set yourself by the line of VP, wait for attack, force retreat, move in grens to decap, place MGs little further, don't be greedy, don't advance too much, get back to MG line, have 251 behind and pios nearby for reinforcement and MG repairs.
You don't need to worry about the map control(and therefore mobility) that much, because its 2v2 and you have OKW partner for a reason there.
I don't use mortar or mines, but mines actually sounds good for flank protection.
You don't need LMGs with this setup, because you are suppose to outlast, not outdps opponents and suppressed cons can't fight back.
What he said is reasonable and similar to what I use.
2 HMGs, pios and 251 is the key here.
Excalty this.
I forgot about 2 flamers pios.
S-mines are useful because I can cover MG with each other increasing its power. With empty flank I would be forced to turn MG litte more = no more MG covering each other. With S-mines on the flank I can compelty forget about it and focus in the middle of the engagement.
And the mortar is amazing when enemy is blobbing so hard. One good shell into clumbed blob 4-6kills.
Mobility of your solution, 0 ? ;D
What mobility you need? Blob is attacking, force it reatreat, push little further and repeat.
Crossing woods, first wave was on my side of the river (north spawn) around fuel point.
Second and third wave was at right VP.
Fourth wave was for ammo point.
Fifth wave was for the point near the right edge of the map.
It took me 15min to repel 5 waves and to move from my side of the river to the point with those cutted trees on the right. MP bleed from SU player was outstanding.
Between waves I could plant mines, make ambushes at stuff like that. And since he had Tank Hunter, I did not have to worry about 120s.
9 Apr 2015, 14:31 PM
#574
Posts: 344
Change team weapon crews to simply disembark their team weapon when it's destroyed, rather than running home to mama or committing Sudoku. You can then manually retreat them and reinforce them with a full crew and a new gun (automatically reinforce since it's technically a squad entity).
Problem solved. Next.
EDIT: And yes, it's fking possible, I've coded this sh*t before, don't start your usual forum whining.
Problem solved. Next.
EDIT: And yes, it's fking possible, I've coded this sh*t before, don't start your usual forum whining.
Pocketsize: "I can't wait till they add british to CoH: O; the extreme forces leveled by the new imbalances will create a black hole around the servers that destroys half of Canada."
9 Apr 2015, 16:55 PM
#575
Posts: 23
The only OP unit I see in this game is Stuka. The rest is the spam/blob strat that everybody uses with all armies (specially OKW) which relic is unable (mp drain is so hard?) to fix.
Legit, this guy knows what he's talking about.
9 Apr 2015, 17:28 PM
#576
Posts: 879
The only real problem is wrecking team weapons. They can't fix this because COH2 doesn't have target tables, like in COH1.
You wanted PTRS buffed, this is what happens. They need to redo the database so team weapons aren't in the same category as vehicles. And then give everything else the old chance to penetrate and kill a weapon (ie., tanks and so on.) And maybe PTRS should do a little damage to team weapons, just not this ridiculous amount.
They tried to greatly simply the weapon damages system in COH2, this is one of the unfortunate results of that simplification. The argument against the vast target tables system was that it would be easier to balance. But it's not, it just created new problems that can't be easily fixed.
If you had target tables, PTRS could be set to do more damage against tanks and less against team weapons.
You wanted PTRS buffed, this is what happens. They need to redo the database so team weapons aren't in the same category as vehicles. And then give everything else the old chance to penetrate and kill a weapon (ie., tanks and so on.) And maybe PTRS should do a little damage to team weapons, just not this ridiculous amount.
They tried to greatly simply the weapon damages system in COH2, this is one of the unfortunate results of that simplification. The argument against the vast target tables system was that it would be easier to balance. But it's not, it just created new problems that can't be easily fixed.
If you had target tables, PTRS could be set to do more damage against tanks and less against team weapons.
9 Apr 2015, 17:29 PM
#577
Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1
Change team weapon crews to simply disembark their team weapon when it's destroyed, rather than running home to mama or committing Sudoku. You can then manually retreat them and reinforce them with a full crew and a new gun (automatically reinforce since it's technically a squad entity).
Problem solved. Next.
EDIT: And yes, it's fking possible, I've coded this sh*t before, don't start your usual forum whining.
What about PAKs and Mortars? Do they get a new weapon too? Can't be done, Rather than a solution, this is wiping out the question. Weapon destruction is a part of this game, and should happen.
9 Apr 2015, 22:47 PM
#578
Posts: 344
What about PAKs and Mortars? Do they get a new weapon too? Can't be done, Rather than a solution, this is wiping out the question. Weapon destruction is a part of this game, and should happen.
So just because the gun gets destroyed the entire heavily-armed support crew should just flee in panic? What then is your ingenious solution? Nurf dirty Soviet dogs? PTRS +5* scatter, damage to 20, cooldown to 3s, aim time to 2s?
Pocketsize: "I can't wait till they add british to CoH: O; the extreme forces leveled by the new imbalances will create a black hole around the servers that destroys half of Canada."
9 Apr 2015, 23:04 PM
#579
Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1
So just because the gun gets destroyed the entire heavily-armed support crew should just flee in panic? What then is your ingenious solution? Nurf dirty Soviet dogs? PTRS +5* scatter, damage to 20, cooldown to 3s, aim time to 2s?
One of the solutions which has been discussed is to simply the weapon profile for cons (this has been brought up in different posts by different forum members). Guards are what they should be right now, "Only cons are problematic". Even partisans are fine IMO. Just nerf the accuracy of PTRS for cons and increase scatter, so they can only hit light and medium armor.
Again, for the 10th time, these issues happen when you drastically buff your core infantry. Why do people beg Relic to move Pzschreck from Volks to Sturmpios? Because you can easily spam you core unit, then upgrade them with Pzschrecks and thanks to the 5vet system, create a horde of Anti-everything Ubermensch.
10 Apr 2015, 07:26 AM
#580
Posts: 1162
Using Luftwaffe supply to drop in lots of munis and spamming incendiary barrage might be fun vs con blob.
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