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Over nerfed Obers

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2 Apr 2015, 10:14 AM
#161
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

Obers are fine. You just have to use actually micro them into cover now instead of simply A-moving across open fields like you could do pre-patch.


People still can do that as their 0.7 modifier hasnt been affected. The problem is that baseline obers provide far to little for 400 mp. nothing more then slightly stronger grenadiers
2 Apr 2015, 10:24 AM
#162
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2015, 10:14 AMJaigen


People still can do that as their 0.7 modifier hasnt been affected. The problem is that baseline obers provide far to little for 400 mp. nothing more then slightly stronger grenadiers


Is this troll?
Without LMG they own everything, except Shocks.
Their DPS is like Grens with LMG.
2 Apr 2015, 10:27 AM
#163
avatar of drChengele
Patrion 14

Posts: 640 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2015, 10:14 AMJaigen
The problem is that baseline obers provide far to little for 400 mp. nothing more then slightly stronger grenadiers
I disagree, people are just used to them completely and effortlessly pwning everything in sight. I would say they provide enough survivability and DPS for a 400mp infantry unit. Looking at Paras, Falls and PzGrens for comparison of cost effectiveness.

They are not "slightly better Grenadiers", they are Ultra-grenadiers. Long range firepower out of the box, much more accurate kars, with an exponentially more powerful, but same-cost, LMG upgrade, better received acc modifiers, and insane veterancy bonuses.
2 Apr 2015, 10:57 AM
#164
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

I disagree, people are just used to them completely and effortlessly pwning everything in sight. I would say they provide enough survivability and DPS for a 400mp infantry unit. Looking at Paras, Falls and PzGrens for comparison of cost effectiveness.

They are not "slightly better Grenadiers", they are Ultra-grenadiers. Long range firepower out of the box, much more accurate kars, with an exponentially more powerful, but same-cost, LMG upgrade, better received acc modifiers, and insane veterancy bonuses.


Al this blabbering how awesome they are still doesnt change the fact that they are horribly cost inefficient. are they better then the para's grens and rifles? oh yeah. here is the thing i can easily get 2 of them for each ober. and 2 para's rifles and grens >>>>>> 1 ober.
2 Apr 2015, 10:58 AM
#165
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130



Is this troll?
Without LMG they own everything, except Shocks.
Their DPS is like Grens with LMG.


Go back to your college and ask your money back from your maths teacher.
2 Apr 2015, 11:05 AM
#166
avatar of SturmtigerCobra
Patrion 310

Posts: 964 | Subs: 11

OKW was only OP in team games, 1vs1 not so much. Now when I play soviet OKW feel much weaker than werh. OKW still have a strong late game but their early-mid game is to weak now that they dont have the saving grace of OP obers. The patch was fine and obers needed a nerf but OKW early/mid game still need some fine-tuning.

My suggestion;
1) Sturmpioneers flamer upgrade which OKW cant spam anyway so 1-2 SP with flamers should be fine.

2) For its price tag which are similar to 120mm mortars the LEIG infantry support gun still sucks and it dont scale well due to strange veterancy bonuses. Vet bonus instead should give them more armor penetration so mid game they can supplement OKWs lack of counters to sherman spam. AT guns and tank destroyers (Puma/Jagdpanzer IV) wont work on non-open maps so OKW need someething else in the mid game until they can get a panther out.
2 Apr 2015, 11:09 AM
#167
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2015, 10:58 AMJaigen


Go back to your college and ask your money back from your maths teacher.


Why you are such troll and can't accept simple facts?
2 Apr 2015, 11:14 AM
#168
avatar of ofield

Posts: 420



Why you are such troll and can't accept simple facts?


Because he is biased idiot.

Obers without lmg max range dps 13.3
Lmg Grens max range dps 14
2 Apr 2015, 11:22 AM
#169
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9

Let's try to proceed onwards without the flameposting, please? Looking at Jaigen...

Thanks
2 Apr 2015, 11:25 AM
#170
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2015, 10:58 AMJaigen


Go back to your college and ask your money back from your maths teacher.

This is where you are right.
Its pretty much the same on long range only.
At close range its greater then rifles, so its even better then in his comparison.
2 Apr 2015, 11:28 AM
#171
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2015, 10:14 AMJaigen


People still can do that as their 0.7 modifier hasnt been affected. The problem is that baseline obers provide far to little for 400 mp. nothing more then slightly stronger grenadiers


Yes, and their LMG34 provides way too much for 60 munitions, which is the same price as a BAR.

I consider the Obers to simply be a 400mp/60muni squad now. And they perform fine for that cost in my opinion.

I suppose you could make obers a cheaper squad so that their MP cost reflect the effectiveness of the baseline unit. But then you also have to make the LMG34 cost more munitions to reflect its performance. However, I'm not a fan of this solution as I'd rather spend a bit more MP and have more munitions to spare for things like mines, schreks, and abilities. Man power is not that much of an issue for OKW, and having more munitions available for abilities lead to better, more exciting gameplay.
2 Apr 2015, 12:14 PM
#172
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225

OKW was only OP in team games, 1vs1 not so much. Now when I play soviet OKW feel much weaker than werh. OKW still have a strong late game but their early-mid game is to weak now that they dont have the saving grace of OP obers. The patch was fine and obers needed a nerf but OKW early/mid game still need some fine-tuning.

This. I think many people simply confused the highly annoying nature of OKW play with its blobs and lack of combined arms with actual strength, and many hyperventilated over the seemingly obscene statline of units like the KT, whereas in 1v1 you would rarely if ever actually have to face one unless you got severely outplayed in the first place. Even in the previous patch, when playing Soviets, OH was usually more of a problem as long as the tech decisions were correct, that is.
As for Obers, I'll reserve judgment for now, it remains to be seen how this plays out, but I think they should have received maybe an increase in reinforcement speed in exchange. Looking at their baseline stats, they are now a glorified Gren squad, albeit still profiting from insanely strong vet bonuses. Well at least thats in line with the OKW theme, ie. weak vanilla, disprortionally strong vetted.
2 Apr 2015, 12:17 PM
#173
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130



Yes, and their LMG34 provides way too much for 60 munitions, which is the same price as a BAR.

I consider the Obers to simply be a 400mp/60muni squad now. And they perform fine for that cost in my opinion.

I suppose you could make obers a cheaper squad so that their MP cost reflect the effectiveness of the baseline unit. But then you also have to make the LMG34 cost more munitions to reflect its performance. However, I'm not a fan of this solution as I'd rather spend a bit more MP and have more munitions to spare for things like mines, schreks, and abilities. Man power is not that much of an issue for OKW, and having more munitions available for abilities lead to better, more exciting gameplay.


Eh no because your still bottlenecked by the mp. how many obers are you able to get? 2 perhaps max 3. i can get 7-8 grens/rifles and after a while they will get upgraded and blow the obers out of the water with their efficiency.

That obers needed to be nerfed was clear. but should have gone for 300 mp obers with a 90 ammo lmg and 120 ammo stg44.
Phy
2 Apr 2015, 12:19 PM
#174
avatar of Phy

Posts: 509 | Subs: 1

With the tears of axis fanboys we could end the thirst in the world.
2 Apr 2015, 12:20 PM
#175
avatar of PITZburgKID

Posts: 9

Bc they are not Terminators anymore>?????

they didnt worry about cover or enemy upgrades..

and the way they could walk upon enemy retreat and just rape the whole unit without and ability is cray.

they are not robots and do not have Kevlar vests ha..
2 Apr 2015, 12:38 PM
#176
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2015, 12:17 PMJaigen


Eh no because your still bottlenecked by the mp. how many obers are you able to get? 2 perhaps max 3. i can get 7-8 grens/rifles and after a while they will get upgraded and blow the obers out of the water with their efficiency.

That obers needed to be nerfed was clear. but should have gone for 300 mp obers with a 90 ammo lmg and 120 ammo stg44.


So what are you saying exactly? Should 2 obers outperform 7-8 LMG grens? LMG Obersoldaten out-perform LMG grenadiers cost for cost. What they lack in MP efficiency they more than make up for with munition efficiency. The reason you only get max 2-3 obers in a match is because you also have shrecked up volks running around.

Edit: Also, if LMG grens are going to be your target of reference for how cost-effective units should be, the allies would like to receive their buffs please! 60 ammo for a BAR is laughable vs 60 ammo for a LMG42.
2 Apr 2015, 14:47 PM
#177
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130



So what are you saying exactly? Should 2 obers outperform 7-8 LMG grens? LMG Obersoldaten out-perform LMG grenadiers cost for cost. What they lack in MP efficiency they more than make up for with munition efficiency. The reason you only get max 2-3 obers in a match is because you also have shrecked up volks running around.

Edit: Also, if LMG grens are going to be your target of reference for how cost-effective units should be, the allies would like to receive their buffs please! 60 ammo for a BAR is laughable vs 60 ammo for a LMG42.



Not by a long shot.Then their is also the issue of reduced ammo and fuel income as well as volksgreandiers being the worst baseline infantry. And bars are awesome provided you are in CC situations. but lmg's and assaults rifles are 2 completely different weapons. so i have no idea why you compare them.

The big question why tech up and get obers? you dont your better of with volks or any other call infantry. You have given me no reason to take obers over other infantry.
2 Apr 2015, 14:52 PM
#178
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2015, 14:47 PMJaigen



Not by a long shot.Then their is also the issue of reduced ammo and fuel income as well as volksgreandiers being the worst baseline infantry. And bars are awesome provided you are in CC situations. but lmg's and assaults rifles are 2 completely different weapons. so i have no idea why you compare them

Because its not meant to grant them huge advantage. You know, they are supposed to be more balanced.
Muni income is not an argument, LMG is well worth 90 muni yet it costs 60-same 60 as Ost normal LMG that can't fire on the move and you need to get prone to fire it.
2 Apr 2015, 15:12 PM
#179
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130


Because its not meant to grant them huge advantage. You know, they are supposed to be more balanced.
Muni income is not an argument, LMG is well worth 90 muni yet it costs 60-same 60 as Ost normal LMG that can't fire on the move and you need to get prone to fire it.


They would be balanced if in the ostheer. but they are not in the ostheer. The only good thing about this is that it shows the flaws and the rather large problems with the okw. with these guys nerfed it shall become apparent and several aspects of the okw will get buffed. i doubt the puma and track will remain where they art.
2 Apr 2015, 15:21 PM
#180
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

So use doctrinal infantry instead.
OKW doesn't lack that.
Soviets rely in it since day 1.

Obers are still potent, you might see that if you play the game(as up until now no evidence of it exist) instead of just forum warrioring with johnnyb.
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