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russian armor

USF wishes for patch

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28 Mar 2015, 13:43 PM
#21
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

Change veterancy for rifles, buff Jackson, nerf howitzer cost, buff survavility of 50 cal crew, buff stuart, buff bazookas and do something with Cpt tier.


Pretty much this.

Hey Alex the Panther does 160 a SHOT! It must kill tanks as fast as a Easy 8 can!

Oh wait its balanced by its RELOAD please stop with the 240 shot argument. Poor poor 640HP mediums die in 17.4 seconds if every shot was a hit and Pen!

BUT WAIT WHATS THIS? An SU85 can kill them in 16.8! GASP! SU85 OP please nerf. It too must be doing 240 a shot...

So yes please increase its Pen and decrease its damage per shot it would make Alex so happy buuuut increase its reload to that of an SU85 thanks appreciate it....Because it would be so much worse without 240 a shot!

Edit: A Sturmtiger does 640 a SHOT IT MUST BE OP!!
28 Mar 2015, 14:39 PM
#22
avatar of sneakking

Posts: 655

Permanently Banned
Equalize the damage and penetration of the Jackson (reduce damage, increase penetration) so this way it can actually do something to KTs but not annihilate medium tanks out of existence. And maybe a slight reload buff.

I see I missed REForever's impersonator's shitpost, and everyone who took him seriously :/ Just don't respond and wait till the moderators wake up from their coma and do something about him.
28 Mar 2015, 14:48 PM
#23
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

Captain Tier needs some AI capabilities, either buff Stuart's AI or Captain's SMG buff.
28 Mar 2015, 15:10 PM
#24
avatar of ilGetUSomDay

Posts: 612

Poor stuart needs some love. To be honest I think all the light tanks need a slight fuel reduction. they all cost quite similar to a medium tank and get overlooked.
28 Mar 2015, 16:26 PM
#25
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

I would like to see something in the middle. Keep 60 range (cause it's damn fragile), lower DMG to 200 (so it will still remain damage puncher but it will make Ost T3 avaible) and increase penetration to 220/200/180

This.
28 Mar 2015, 16:58 PM
#26
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1



Guys I think as a community we really need to come together and show Relic what needs to be done. How can we expect relic to do anything when we as a community can't even agree on a single thing in terms of balance? You don't think they are having these exact same arguments? We need to have a united front so that they understand the game is in serious need of alterations.

That's not gonna happen. People are either biased, or they have their minds set on something and do not change their opinion. That's why in every single game, you can't make everyone happy. Look at Blizzard's games, or LoL and DoTA. They do their best, and are kinda successful at balancing the game, but there are ALWAYS people who cry, and most of the time, they do have good points.


That's why being the lead balance designer is stressful. You have to make important decisions, and try to make MOST of the community happy. Which is challenging, because sometimes when you balance the game for "Average Players", the competitive value of the game drops. Add RNG to all these arguments and you'll get a mess called COH2 balance.

Bottom line, we are never gonna unite on something. We can't even agree on something more than 70%, just take a loot at some polls. It's up to relic to decide what to do.
28 Mar 2015, 17:23 PM
#27
avatar of Stafkeh
Patrion 14

Posts: 1006

Interesting ideas enough on this forum, like Relic gives a f&@#. They surely have their priorities right :snfCHVGame:

But im looking forward to the patch, hopefully they dont screw everything up..
28 Mar 2015, 17:29 PM
#28
avatar of Remi

Posts: 17

USF are the strongest faction in 1vs1 and have been since WFA release, take a look at the leaderboards all those ridiculous winning streaks/percentages compared to other factions don't lie.

They have the best Infantry, large squad sizes, cheap teching that gives you free units and a forward reinforce point, the best/earliest light vehicles, Mines and Medium armour in the game. Hell the only thing they lack is a heavy tank, but that doesn't matter when you have P-47's and a TD that can two shot StuG's.
28 Mar 2015, 17:31 PM
#29
avatar of AssaultPlazma

Posts: 300

I fail to see how making the Jackson requiring one extra shot to destroy axis T3 Tanks will fix the problem?
28 Mar 2015, 17:34 PM
#30
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2015, 17:29 PMRemi
USF are the strongest faction in 1vs1 and have been since WFA release, take a look at the leaderboards all those ridiculous winning streaks/percentages compared to other factions don't lie.


Point? I thought the objective was to reduce that power and make it more survivable in team games; the game mode 95% of people play...
28 Mar 2015, 17:42 PM
#31
avatar of sneakking

Posts: 655

Permanently Banned
I fail to see how making the Jackson requiring one extra shot to destroy axis T3 Tanks will fix the problem?


Because you'd be able to actually damage King Tigers and Panthers from long range instead of having to cross your fingers and pray to RNGesus every time you fire at one. As it stands, Jackson vs KT/Panther = pure luck.
28 Mar 2015, 17:44 PM
#32
avatar of AssaultPlazma

Posts: 300

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2015, 17:29 PMRemi
USF are the strongest faction in 1vs1 and have been since WFA release, take a look at the leaderboards all those ridiculous winning streaks/percentages compared to other factions don't lie.

They have the best Infantry, large squad sizes, cheap teaching that gives you free units and a forward reinforce point, the best/earliest light vehicles, Mines and Medium armour in the game. Hell the only thing they lack is a heavy tank, but that doesn't matter when you have P-47's and a TD that can two shot StuG's.



-Best Infantry Early game, but scales badly lategame(better than conscripts though) unless double upgraded with LMGs which is 120-140 munition a squad

-M20 is great Ill give you that AAHT is no better than OKW version if anything worse since its timing ensures it has a limited window to do anything, and is probably worse since it lacks smoke

-M20 mines are awesome but that also the greatest weakness since it gated behind a vehicle that you may or may not have and may not always be viable to deploy lategame especially since its useless besides laying mines at that point.

-agreed US medium armor is good other than the jackson currently being too good vs Ostheer T3 and too lackluster against lategame armor while also being USF sole lategame AT option against lategame besides P47s

-Lacking a Heavy Tank means alot especially in team games, P47s are good but they dont fully substitute heavy tanks, and I fail too see what 2 shotting StuGs has too do with latgame since no one uses them lategame?
28 Mar 2015, 17:48 PM
#33
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

I fail to see how making the Jackson requiring one extra shot to destroy axis T3 Tanks will fix the problem?

Well, 5.2 more seconds to live is 5.2 more seconds, an M36 definitely doesn't instantly kill all of Wehrmacht T3 the moment they show their faces right now...be a bit more feasible to outplay them in a shot-blocker sort of map with a PIV since then an M36 won't have a chance as long as the PIV gets in without being shot up first. Would also help stop a single PIV from being pretty much definitely dead the moment two M36s get made and placed in range.

Think I'd still prefer M36 at 160 damage instead of 200 because it'll still two-shot StuG Gs with the latter.
28 Mar 2015, 17:51 PM
#34
avatar of AssaultPlazma

Posts: 300

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2015, 17:48 PMVuther

Well, 5.2 more seconds to live is 5.2 more seconds, an M36 definitely doesn't instantly kill all of Wehrmacht T3 the moment they show their faces right now...be a bit more feasible to outplay them in a shot-blocker sort of map with a PIV since then an M36 won't have a chance as long as the PIV gets in without being shot up first. Would also help stop a single PIV from being pretty much definitely dead the moment two M36s get made and placed in range.

Think I'd still prefer M36 at 160 damage instead of 200 because it'll still two-shot StuG Gs with the latter.


Again I fail how this drastically change things. So I need an extra hit with gurenteed pen vs all of OST Tier 3? if anything they'll they're being hit a Jackson and have to retreat anyway cause if they try to bomb rush they'll still die.....
28 Mar 2015, 18:02 PM
#35
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053



Again I fail how this drastically change things. So I need an extra hit with gurenteed pen vs all of OST Tier 3. if anything they'll they're being hit a Jackson and have to retreat anyway cause if they try to bomb rush they'll still die.....


If a panzer iv manages to get its shot on the Jackson within 5 seconds of it being hit by the Jackson, itll win. Thats much better than the panzer iv already losing the second a Jackson arrives to battle. And if somehow thats not enough, increase the jackson's reload? 160 damage jackson vs panzer iv is still better odds for the panzer iv than a t34/76/sherman against a panzer iv...
28 Mar 2015, 18:08 PM
#36
avatar of The Silver Sage

Posts: 183



Again I fail how this drastically change things. So I need an extra hit with gurenteed pen vs all of OST Tier 3? if anything they'll they're being hit a Jackson and have to retreat anyway cause if they try to bomb rush they'll still die.....


If you want an in game example, look how luchs survives against AT guns in comparison with T70 and stuart. That extra shot really does make a difference to survivability, you have more time to react and/or escape.
28 Mar 2015, 18:35 PM
#37
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Pretty much this.

Hey Alex the Panther does 160 a SHOT! It must kill tanks as fast as a Easy 8 can!

Oh wait its balanced by its RELOAD please stop with the 240 shot argument. Poor poor 640HP mediums die in 17.4 seconds if every shot was a hit and Pen!

BUT WAIT WHATS THIS? An SU85 can kill them in 16.8! GASP! SU85 OP please nerf. It too must be doing 240 a shot...

So yes please increase its Pen and decrease its damage per shot it would make Alex so happy buuuut increase its reload to that of an SU85 thanks appreciate it....Because it would be so much worse without 240 a shot!

Edit: A Sturmtiger does 640 a SHOT IT MUST BE OP!!


Except the SU-85 doesn't have a turret, or the best accuracy on the move of any TD in the game, and it's armor is still paper thin.

TD's come with trade offs, you can't just have a 200+ damage TD that scoots around the map fast as anything else while also having good penetration.

What the Jackson needs right now is a reduction to 160 damage, and a big increase in ROF so it does better DPS but less Alpha. Also more shots = more chances top penetrate heavy tanks.

I would like to see something in the middle. Keep 60 range (cause it's damn fragile), lower DMG to 200 (so it will still remain damage puncher but it will make Ost T3 avaible) and increase penetration to 220/200/180


This would make it far, far better than both the JPIV and the SU-85, what exactly would be the point of those tanks existing when they are both more expensive than a Jackson or equal in cost?
28 Mar 2015, 20:27 PM
#38
avatar of AssaultPlazma

Posts: 300



If you want an in game example, look how luchs survives against AT guns in comparison with T70 and stuart. That extra shot really does make a difference to survivability, you have more time to react and/or escape.


True you make a point. however lets not discount the fact the jackson has 60 range and is mobile unlike an AT gun. As far as I can see with these changes just moving back slighty is all slugger would have to do too remain on top. Perhaps we could have Faustcostbulletin or another modding user test the changes to see the impact?
28 Mar 2015, 21:41 PM
#40
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1



True you make a point. however lets not discount the fact the jackson has 60 range and is mobile unlike an AT gun. As far as I can see with these changes just moving back slighty is all slugger would have to do too remain on top. Perhaps we could have Faustcostbulletin or another modding user test the changes to see the impact?


That 60 range is overrated, specially against Axis heavies and the mighty panther. Panthers deflect the first shot, then they close the distance and start chewing your Jackson.
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