Let's Make USA Easier to Play Late Game

US need more micro than other factions late game? That's news to me, I never really considered pressing U a couple of times to solo all Wehr armour with a Jackson to be that micro intensive.

If anything the T-34/76, SU-85, Jagdpanzer are all much harder to use than American tanks, and you also lack the instant engine repair and smoke to get you out of jail.

I think the real problem here is most US whiners do not know how to play their own faction after the game develops past rifle spam. M20 mines are ridiculously powerful against Panthers/King tigers and render them useless when they roll over one. A single jackson will completely shut down Axis meduim armour and double Jacksons will turn a Tiger into a smoking wreck as it struggles to get in range. Howitzer carriages and HE Shermans will decimate shrek blobs because you can kite faster than they can pursue, the former being OP imo for its meagre cost.

If any faction is gimped late game it is soviets, the only reason they are currently competitive is because of doctrinal IS-2's and the T-34/85.

Can't say anything else than LOL.

Kite a shreck blob with a sherman? I wonder why anyone did think about that one? Maybe because you can't do it effectively?

Plz stay out of balance discussion. Would be better for everyone.

Can't say anything else than LOL.

That's because you're simple minded.

Kite a shreck blob with a sherman? I wonder why anyone did think about that one? Maybe because you can't do it effectively?

Well it's not hard, drive into range with your Shermans, fire off a couple of shots for a squad wipe and back away. Repair, rinse and repeat until the Ost/OKW player is bled dry.

Plz stay out of balance discussion. Would be better for everyone.

I could say the same about you friend, but it's nice to educate US fanboys about their own faction once and a while :^)

That's because you're simple minded.



Well it's not hard, drive into range with your Shermans, fire off a couple of shots for a squad wipe and back away. Repair, rinse and repeat until the Ost/OKW player is bled dry.




I could say the same about you friend, but it's nice to educate US fanboys about their own faction once and a while :^)

14 games as USF and you dare speak? And you do not even have a good ranking? Lol.

And while you stay to fire a couple of shot, if they hit, your sherman will be dead.

Whoever says USF does not require more micro late game clearly have not played against equal opponent using heavy armor or against OKW shreckspam(I did not wanted to call anyone complete moron).

Relic themselves said allies are much more micro intensive late game due to lack of heavy armor(which is easy to use compare to mediums) and there are still people who want to argue that?

Just because someone uses sherman or jackson effectively doesn't equal to it being used easy, you loose focus for a split second and you have a smoking wreckage, do the same as axis and you have to press blitz and warp away for repairs with your heavies.

US need more micro than other factions late game? That's news to me, I never really considered pressing U a couple of times to solo all Wehr armour with a Jackson to be that micro intensive.

If anything the T-34/76, SU-85, Jagdpanzer are all much harder to use than American tanks, and you also lack the instant engine repair and smoke to get you out of jail.

I think the real problem here is most US whiners do not know how to play their own faction after the game develops past rifle spam. M20 mines are ridiculously powerful against Panthers/King tigers and render them useless when they roll over one. A single jackson will completely shut down Axis meduim armour and double Jacksons will turn a Tiger into a smoking wreck as it struggles to get in range. Howitzer carriages and HE Shermans will decimate shrek blobs because you can kite faster than they can pursue, the former being OP imo for its meagre cost.

If any faction is gimped late game it is soviets, the only reason they are currently competitive is because of doctrinal IS-2's and the T-34/85.

have u ever even played USF lol.
Jackson sure is good against axis med armor but once panther,tiger,kt,and jagpnzr/tiger rollout its a stomp.
USF rifle men don't scale well to okw and have A HUGE Reinforcement cost and makes it super hard to keep them alive. They should play like a glass cannon but right now they play like just simply glass with a fork.

Sherman HE shells ONLY work well if YOU MICRO the tank itself, on avg the shell only kills around 1-2 models while it takes 3-4 shrek rockets to kill it. The Sherman itself doesn't have the range to counter blobs, the smoke drop makes the tank stop, and the tank often misses and requires way more micro than u expect. The Jackson shells bounce 10/12 times shooting at a tiger and 4/8 shells hitting a panther. The Jackson shells often bounce off panthers as they blitz behind the jackson, the shells often miss or simply just wont fire. Its a very underwhelming unit when its the only thing you have to counter axis late armor and loosing one can simply mean game over before the axis can loose a tank. The manpower investments for USF is stupidly over the top due to the pop cap for each unit being high, and often times you end up throwing rifle men away just to get paratroopers due to them having the same upkeep.

Microing the Sherman and Jackson is also very hard to do as they lack the crush ability to kill their own carcass, this leads to multiple tanks getting stuck and simply getting flanked and killed in two shots.

Its easy to say people don't know how to play a faction but its been so long since a significant balance patch its hard not to see the issues in the faction. Almost nobody chose to play USF in the starcrossed cups.


*rant over*

Microing the Sherman and Jackson is also very hard to do as they lack the crush ability to kill their own carcass, this leads to multiple tanks getting stuck and simply getting flanked and killed in two shots.


*rant over*

Oh god you gave me flashbacks of a 2v2 on semois as double US. jacksons endlessly spinning around trying to drive away at the cutoff

If you ask me,i think that the vehicle crews are essential to win late game as usf.
I have won many games thanks to vehicle crews jumping out and capping/holding the decisive point for a few more seconds,just to get the counter to zero

Vehicle crew means nothing if the USF player has to constantly repair his/her tanks due to Axis heavy AT (especially late game heavy armor with high DPS). Another reason why USF has difficulty late game because of no heavy armor to absorb damage from Heavies while infantry can engage Shrek squads.

Vehicle crew means nothing if the USF player has to constantly repair his/her tanks due to Axis heavy AT (especially late game heavy armor with high DPS). Another reason why USF has difficulty late game because of no heavy armor to absorb damage from Heavies while infantry can engage Shrek squads.

This.

It's like, 1 shot from Sherman and then 20-40sec for repairs.


Jackson may be powerful but the penetration... Once my 3 Jacksons fired two times at Panther (6 shots) and all bounced

On narrow maps Jackson has no place. Jadgpanzer counters Jackson without any problems. And what left then? Bazookas?

If you ask me,i think that the vehicle crews are essential to win late game as usf.
I have won many games thanks to vehicle crews jumping out and capping/holding the decisive point for a few more seconds,just to get the counter to zero

You would not need that if USF were more balanced late game. You would win late game if you play better.

Crew management is a good idea and I'm not sure it requires way more micro than other tanks when it comes to repair them.

My point is clearly different from yours, I don't think USF faction need to be easier to play late game. I think, and it's probably easier to put in place, other factions need to rise their gameplay to USF.

Blob concept should see his effectiveness hardly nerf. - for all factions.
Heavy tanks should requires more micro, probably something like what happened to ISU.
-2 different types of shell
-An ability to shot his strongest shells. Something like reducing auto-fire damage and adding an ability with a high damage shot.

Well, there are probably many possibilities to rise factions gameplay to USF level.

Schreks are effective against all US armor. Flanking a heavy is out of the question if there is even one(and there is always more then one). US's only source of reliable AT are ones that outrange your enemy and range is is the easiest element to subvert. Especially when axis have units that outrange the US's methods, completely negating them.

My issue with USF (late) game
Everything requires more micro and none of your vehicles have the hp or gimmick abilites to survive out of bad situations:
-planting clusters of mines
-recrewing vehicles after youre done repairing
-armor on shermans and jacksons is pathetic, might not even exist at all. shrecks will always penetrate (this is probably the thing I hate most, shrecks are way too easy to use)
-Activating the amulance heal. medics out of the ambulance don't stay put
-You do not have proper mines. M20 mines are great except you will need to go lieutenant and any player worth his salt will instantly buy sweepers and check where the m20 has been. The anti vehicle mines must be placed in clusters and the outcome is purely RNG
-support weapons have no health. atguns with 4 men will get 2-3 shot by tigers, 50cals will get riflenaded to death and pack howitzers require 3 men to work. So you keep the pack howie in the back except its autofire range is ridiculously low
Riflemen veterancy is terrible, the atnade takes ages to fire resulting in way more losses than cons and grens
-You have too many useless popcap. Major takes up popcap, ambulance, I would say captain is also waste at fighting anything other than pumas

this all culminates when fighting (king) tigers. You need 2 jackson to scare of tigers. Fuel cost is comparable except you don't have any AI. so you need riflemen in front to scout to get the nice 60 range. Riflemen get 2-3 shot by tigers. The moment you do not have vision you're screwed. Granted this should never happen but Other factions have the HP or abilties to survive. Here a tiger shows up at 40 range with your 2 jackson you will most likely lose it, the speed it has over the tiger gets nullified when tigers are vet 1(blitz on heavies, another stupid idea). You can't bait it over mines when youve gone captain


Sorry for the rant but the US faction is so incomplete even when all of the tier units would be worth it

All great points. Worth the read.

Also the comment about tanks getting stuck on their own for US is a good point. Such a stupid thing for a faction supposed to flank, a tank that gets stuck frequently, great idea.

About stucking/pathfinding issue...

For example, Semosky, north spawn.
We have narrows passage to get to the city.
If you take 3 Jacksons under one hotkey and order them to move to the city, they will move in a line behind each other. OK.
Now let's order them to reverse and they won't reverse one by one.
First one, the closest to the passage will reverse but 2 of them will try to look for another path/rotate cause this one is blocked by reversing Jackson.

Point is, how it's different from moving forward?
If you can move forward one by one, why you can reverse like that?

If your Panther or Tiger will rotate for 3-4 seconds it will survive.
But for Jackson or Sherman it means death.

About stucking/pathfinding issue...

For example, Semosky, north spawn.
We have narrows passage to get to the city.
If you take 3 Jacksons under one hotkey and order them to move to the city, they will move in a line behind each other. OK.
Now let's order them to reverse and they won't reverse one by one.
First one, the closest to the passage will reverse but 2 of them will try to look for another path/rotate cause this one is blocked by reversing Jackson.

Point is, how it's different from moving forward?
If you can move forward one by one, why you can reverse like that?

If your Panther or Tiger will rotate for 3-4 seconds it will survive.
But for Jackson or Sherman it means death.

Exactly this. I find that USF gets punished the most by pathfinding because they must rely on low HP units to do their jobs. A panther/ tiger can get caught on a point, rotate, and still escape because of their HP pool (especially since tigers can bounce sherman rounds to the rear), due to their high HP pools. If a pursued Jackson/sherman turns around and stops, it dies because it has low armor and HP, meaning that a panther can finish them with the help of the volksgrenadiers that are not far behind. Not to mention the fact that because USF has multiple tanks, one pathfinding hiccup may stall your entire retreat, while axis may only have one other unit to worry about.

The only real counter to path-finding that I have found is to set each US tank to its own hotkey and micro them all separately, or in the late-late game, in groups of two for shermans. This causes me to lose my ability to micro my infantry forces, which leads to them dying and me having nothing but micro heavy tanks in the late game with maybe 2 rifle squads as my base army.

If you have not learned by now, then let me tell you:
Adding commanders DOES NOT FIX BALANCE PROBLEMS.
It CREATES THEM.
FACTION THAT REQUIRES COMMANDERS TO OPERATE AGAINST STOCK UNITS IS A FACTION WITH A HUGE DESIGN FLAW.

Capital letters, so it will be more clear for you.

I didn't say add I said make the current commanders less useless. Right now USF has fairly good/viable stock units (with some black sheep here and there like OKW) but were it lacks the most compared to OKW is the fact half it's commanders are total shit.

And requiring commanders to do well had been the deal since day 1 for Soviets.

Relic isn't going to redesign the factions, but they might at least be open to buffing more commanders so they are viable.

To throw another suggestion onto the table I say reduce the damage of shreks but increase their ROF so they have the same DPS. That way you tanks actually have time to deal damage instead of exploding the minute they get in range of a blob.