Lets talk Stuart
7 Mar 2015, 02:39 AM
#21
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
It would be cool if it could inflict mini-crits that reduce turret speed or ROF. A utility tank is a cool concept.
7 Mar 2015, 03:02 AM
#22
Posts: 627
While the idea of that gave me a most normal boner, I'm regrettably reading that it only had 3 .30 cals make it to production and it didn't use a .50 (initial M3 Stuarts did have 5 M1919A4s, but it got reduced to three definitely by the time the M5A1 got made. Any variants that I could find which had a .50 cal had it in place of its gun turret)...probably because it couldn't fire them all off at once anyway, like you said.
I do agree with making it better against infantry with its MGs though. The less main guns squad-wiping the better, but that's no reason to keep the Stuart bad.
Am I confusing the M2A4 and M3A1 again? Feck.
One of them had 3 and one of them had 5 and I always forget which is which.
Also M5 turret, which is the M3 hull... oh sod it all I'm just going to go look this all up again and save myself the migraine.
7 Mar 2015, 03:13 AM
#23
Posts: 1637
It would be cool if it could inflict mini-crits that reduce turret speed or ROF. A utility tank is a cool concept.
OMG I agree with you! Next World Peace...
I dont think RNG mini crits though but I think its supposed to be a utility tank and its a really cool concept. Except the utility is too weak and the munitions cost way to expensive. I mean the Stun is good its like having Target Weakpoint on a SU76......yknow can stun but not kill by itself like the Pak.
But the Point Blank engine shot come on 60 Muni? SERIOUSLY? I think if they kept it craptastic as is. Gave it 640 HPs and reduced the cost of its abilities it could take a few AT shots go in do its Job of just debuffing Vehicles by spending Muni (point blank engine shot and stun) and be useful as a utility vehicle.
It would be odd though being a light having THAT many HPs. May just give it Luchs HPs and make Point Blank Engine shot just REAR engine shot. Has to go behind the tank but can get an engine shot at max range something like that.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
7 Mar 2015, 03:37 AM
#24
Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13
Give it 40-45 sight, increase HP to 400, make gun maybe have better RoF but lessen AOE and increase scatter to make it a light vehicle hunter/tank flanker rather than another light tank that's good versus infantry, lessen cost of the engine damage ability and increase penetration at mid to short range.
Now you've got a vehicle that has some scouting ability, is a little tankier for its cost and timing, fits more into its role as a anti-light vehicle unit that, if it gets around back can put some decent hurt on tanks and no longer eats as many munitions. I know the USF tier structure doesn't allow for flexbility, but all if not almost all their light vehicles, aside from abilities are meant to kill infantry. I don't think the Stuart should be one of them.
Now you've got a vehicle that has some scouting ability, is a little tankier for its cost and timing, fits more into its role as a anti-light vehicle unit that, if it gets around back can put some decent hurt on tanks and no longer eats as many munitions. I know the USF tier structure doesn't allow for flexbility, but all if not almost all their light vehicles, aside from abilities are meant to kill infantry. I don't think the Stuart should be one of them.
7 Mar 2015, 03:42 AM
#25
Posts: 1063
So basically the new Stuart will be a close range Puma? I like this idea.
7 Mar 2015, 04:45 AM
#26
8 Posts: 2470
i don't think the stuart is much of an issue against OKH; it costs 140(?) fuel to field and even with OKH's tech problems they can have a pak on the field by then. if it was in the lefty tier an infantry competent stuart would be a huge issue though.
feel free to prove me wrong though. barely see the stuart so it's really hard to make theorycraft judgements about it once it's buffed.
feel free to prove me wrong though. barely see the stuart so it's really hard to make theorycraft judgements about it once it's buffed.
7 Mar 2015, 09:45 AM
#27
7 
Posts: 1664
Replace it with the M24 Chaffe as an analog to the Puma and a way to fight off the Stug III E.
If I am going Captain it is for the Pack Howitzer and/or using his supervise ability to get my Major and a relevant vehicle onto the field before 10 minutes.
If I am going Captain it is for the Pack Howitzer and/or using his supervise ability to get my Major and a relevant vehicle onto the field before 10 minutes.
7 Mar 2015, 10:03 AM
#28
Posts: 2561
Americans have enough indirect fire units, it's just that half of them are of questionable performance (namely mortar halftrack and pack howitzer).USF has plenty of indirect-fire units, but lacks a non-doctrinal barrage unit. Instead they have the pack and M8 which both are designed for attrition, not destroying heavy defensive positions and blobs. Not all indirect units are the same.
As for the stuart, I'd trade the gimmicky abilities for better base stats so it could snipe infantry time to time and maybe even circle strafe pIVs in the best of circumstances.
As for the stuart, I guess I'm the only one that likes this thing. I just had a match where I got it to vet 3 and it was pretty sweet. It's stun ability is actually good for protecting M36s and have used it successfully as such many times.
It's engine killing ability is pretty niche though and I wouldn't recommend using it unless your enemy can't really deal with the stuart because it has bigger problems. I did use it to effect once when I pincered a Tiger that was trying to run from my jacksons and managed to kill it which was pretty sweet.
If it needs a buff, I think it could use some more health so it can survive one more hit. Getting two shotted by everything makes it very hard to use. Maybe a tad bit more Rof as well.
7 Mar 2015, 10:48 AM
#29
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
God would I love to use it as you described. A light tank that could dance in the right hands, grab 2 instead of a Sherman to wingman an m36 dreams.
Craptain, that's pretty good.
Craptain, that's pretty good.
7 Mar 2015, 11:03 AM
#30
9 
Posts: 1094 | Subs: 20
Stuart is bad. Nothing more to add to OP and the others. That's the reason I mostly go for Greyhound doctrine to get an appropriate light vehicle with the Captain build.
7 Mar 2015, 14:11 PM
#31
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Shitty unit, shitty abilities. Nothing to say more.
Luchs and T70 are way better, not to mention Stug which is just 10fuel more expensive.
Luchs and T70 are way better, not to mention Stug which is just 10fuel more expensive.
7 Mar 2015, 16:24 PM
#32
Posts: 738
See but this doesnt add up. There are alot easier ways to make it deal with Light Vehicles and Luchs then to give it Stun and Point Blank Engine shot. This is by the way one of the very very few snares USF has available to it.
If thats all Relic wanted it for then just make its gun 100 Pen with a high ROF and let it roll around the map erasing vehicles (which it can really already do pretty decently)
Who would blow 105 muni to just kill a Luchs anyway? Not this guy. A quicker Sherman does just fine (and building a Stuart GREATLY delays a Sherman on two fronts because Craptain and the 70 fuel it needs.) In fact what you spend on Craptain and Stuart is the Tech cost of LT plus Major.....
Back in WFA alpha the Luch could come earlier as it was in a earlier tier, this meant the US could never really rely in the "I'll just hold out until a Sherman" tactic. These abilities are leftover tools from its old early vehicle destroyer role IMO. The Stuart at the time was also OP and had some nerfs to it before the official release.
The pricing on the abilities is a bit expensive, but at costing around the same price as a demo to catch a mobile tank with engine damage isn't that bad.
I build them quite often if I've gone rifle company and plan to skip Tier 4, it's a decent unit to help capitalise on a fuel advantage before you can roll out the E8 spam. They're also nasty little tanks that fight surprisingly well against the StuG E/Ostwind.
7 Mar 2015, 19:07 PM
#33
Posts: 1637
Back in WFA alpha the Luch could come earlier as it was in a earlier tier, this meant the US could never really rely in the "I'll just hold out until a Sherman" tactic. These abilities are leftover tools from its old early vehicle destroyer role IMO. The Stuart at the time was also OP and had some nerfs to it before the official release.
The pricing on the abilities is a bit expensive, but at costing around the same price as a demo to catch a mobile tank with engine damage isn't that bad.
I build them quite often if I've gone rifle company and plan to skip Tier 4, it's a decent unit to help capitalise on a fuel advantage before you can roll out the E8 spam. They're also nasty little tanks that fight surprisingly well against the StuG E/Ostwind.
Well in 90% of the cases you need to add the Cost of the Stuart to the 60 Muni. Because the only time the Stuart will survive this foolishness is if what its shooting at is busy with something else and unsupported by anything at all.
I understand the beta reference though that makes some sense. And I can do the same thing with an AT nade by the way alot cheaper and safer and IT requires you be behind the tank in most cases but farther away.
I dont think anyone can deny just how underpowered Pointblank engine shot is for how much it will end up costing you. Hell give it Ram it would be better...
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
7 Mar 2015, 19:19 PM
#34
1 Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15
give it Ram it would be better...
A stuart would explode into a million pieces if it rammed anything heavier than a halftrack..isnt it like 15 tons? LOL
7 Mar 2015, 19:24 PM
#35
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
A stuart would explode into a million pieces if it rammed anything heavier than a halftrack..isnt it like 15 tons? LOL
Then we'd have a reason to buy it - pretty fireworks.
7 Mar 2015, 19:28 PM
#36
Posts: 1637
A stuart would explode into a million pieces if it rammed anything heavier than a halftrack..isnt it like 15 tons? LOL
I would pay 70 fuel to see that! Sheesh dont make me go into IRL on you 15 tons at 30MPH hitting something with a free floating turret.....
But I digress...
I think my point is made. When actually thinking RAM is better then an ability that costs 60 muni...says alot....
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
7 Mar 2015, 20:01 PM
#37
Posts: 300
think alot of people are forgetting it also needs a acceleration/speed buff part of why it dies so fast its thats it moves so slow/cant move quickly enough to escape danger.
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7 Mar 2015, 20:52 PM
#38
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Why not give it the ability to break through Hedgerows like Stuart were actually traditionally used for.
7 Mar 2015, 21:06 PM
#39
Posts: 300
Why not give it the ability to break through Hedgerows like Stuart were actually traditionally used for.
cant all medium tanks and higher do this by default by simply driving over them?
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7 Mar 2015, 21:08 PM
#40
Posts: 2053
cant all medium tanks and higher do this by default by simply driving over them?
Yes. Or you can blow up/burn the obstacle.
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