OKW Redesign

There's a lot I can agree with and a lot I don't, but the biggest peeve about this and why it will never happen is because there's way too much new stuff preposed. There almost an entire factions worth of of new content you are trying to add into a already preexisting and strongest faction.

I mean three different doctrinal static arty. No other faction even has 1.

Too many bad ideas

you guys should at least give him the decency to explain/elaborate in detail why you dont agree with his ideas.

Where did all this artillery come from? Heavy tanks didnt work so Germany desperately salvaged some artillery to fight US forces/Soviet forces?

Where did all this artillery come from? Heavy tanks didnt work so Germany desperately salvaged some artillery to fight US forces/Soviet forces?

It was brought through from the same time portal that delivered IR STGs to the 1944 German army in the Ardennes.

There's a lot I can agree with and a lot I don't, but the biggest peeve about this and why it will never happen is because there's way too much new stuff preposed. There almost an entire factions worth of of new content you are trying to add into a already preexisting and strongest faction.

I mean three different doctrinal static arty. No other faction even has 1.

The artillery being non-doctrine goes with OKW's current design philosophy, your stock units are supposed to be your bread and butter while your commanders just augment/change your force enough to alter play style. I tried to make things trade offs, you want to spam infantry? Fine no tanks for you, you want to get a big artillery piece? Fine no blob for your, you want to get Panthers? Fine no infantry spam for you.

The biggest problem with OKW not is your not weighing risk/reward, you just get this big blob of anti-everything and run it around the map.

And refer to my note that even adding some of the stuff would be a welcome change. And I believe that artillery should be non-doc across all factions. Artillery is the greatest blob counter, and every faction deserves equal tools in being able to punish blobbing.

Too many bad ideas

Care to explain, Queen?

Where did all this artillery come from? Heavy tanks didnt work so Germany desperately salvaged some artillery to fight US forces/Soviet forces?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bulge#Initial_German_assault

On 16 December 1944, at 05:30, the Germans began the assault with a massive, 90-minute artillery barrage using 1,600 artillery pieces

Germans made very liberal use of artillery during the Battle of the Bulge, the inclusion of artillery would make OKW more authentic/accurate, not less.

And if your pissed about Heavy Tanks I actually addressed that in my post, all OKW Heavy tanks incur a 33% reduction in fuel income.

It was brought through from the same time portal that delivered IR STGs to the 1944 German army in the Ardennes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zielger%C3%A4t_1229

However, small arms infrared device introduction took place in early 1944

The artillery being non-doctrine goes with OKW's current design philosophy, your stock units are supposed to be your bread and butter while your commanders just augment/change your force enough to alter play style. I tried to make things trade offs, you want to spam infantry? Fine no tanks for you, you want to get a big artillery piece? Fine no blob for your, you want to get Panthers? Fine no infantry spam for you.

The biggest problem with OKW not is your not weighing risk/reward, you just get this big blob of anti-everything and run it around the map.

And refer to my note that even adding some of the stuff would be a welcome change. And I believe that artillery should be non-doc across all factions. Artillery is the greatest blob counter, and every faction deserves equal tools in being able to punish blobbing.



Care to explain, Queen?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bulge#Initial_German_assault



Germans made very liberal use of artillery during the Battle of the Bulge, the inclusion of artillery would make OKW more authentic/accurate, not less.

And if your pissed about Heavy Tanks I actually addressed that in my post, all OKW Heavy tanks incur a 33% reduction in fuel income.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zielger%C3%A4t_1229

From the same page/article

"Vampir gear was first used in combat in February 1945."

From the same page/article

"Vampir gear was first used in combat in February 1945."

The threshold for existing as a unit is so low than it being distributed in early 44' makes it more man capable of being a upgrade for Obers.

Really IR StG's just exist to help counter building garrisoning, and with the changes they could be taken away with out much teeth nashing, but I just find it silly to make the sticking point of realism here.

Actualy, what you propose is OKW being even more powerfull, have the same tanks but for less fuel, all infantry becoming crack troops with stgs and, in addition, have artilerry too, and non-doctrinal. You love OKW verry much, I can say that, but imagine you have to confront one army built as you described. You will consider it OP in one split of a sec. In addition, howitzers attached to buildings (??) and so many options and doctrine changes that my head hurts.
In other words, your army is a total mess and I don't like your changes at all.

Actualy, what you propose is OKW being even more powerfull, have the same tanks but for less fuel, all infantry becoming crack troops with stgs and, in addition, have artilerry too, and non-doctrinal. You love OKW verry much, I can say that, but imagine you have to confront one army built as you described. You will consider it OP in one split of a sec. In addition, howitzers attached to buildings (??) and so many options and doctrine changes that my head hurts.
In other words, your army is a total mess and I don't like your changes at all.

Well the Volks wouldn't get the StG's till they were upgraded with 90 munitions, Obers should have them anyway if they don't have the LMG34 (which is way more OP).

The point is that you have a selection of powerful units, but your options are limited by your MP income. If you could get everything yeah it would be OP, but you can't. You can't have your cake and eat it to like with the current faction design.

And the point of making Howitzers only able to be constructed in HQ Truck sectors is to make it so you don't have bullshit were you can place untouchable artillery in your own base. And each artillery piece is tied to a specific tier based on it's effectiveness. Nebelwerfer is short range so it goes with the most forward HQ the Schwer, the 149mm goes with the Mechanized HQ so it doesn't get OP heals/reinforce and the LefH 105 goes with the medi truck.

I like the concept of OKW, and this redesign is just a way to make it more true to the concept.

Haven't read it yet, but regardless, rework is unlikely. Maybe for a mod.

When you've even got Axis leaning players disagreeing with your suggestions Alex, it's time to back down.

You seem to have fixated on allied artillery strength (which is its single, rather unreliable, late game advantage) and want some of it for Axis, whilst not removing the elements which make OKW lategame OP already.

I'm glad you're not running Relic's balance team (though given the requirements here, you'd need to be in charge of the design team as well).

Im on mobile so wont say more but that this would be broken. Learn the game first. In 4v4 you can rush for Panther and get it around 12-13min. With such changes you would get Panther around 8-9min. Faster than Sherman
If you want to design something, think about all game modes, not just that you are playing. And 9min jadgpanzer in 1v1 still would be broken.

pretty pictures don't make bad ideas better

Sure, if mirror matches were enabled, because I fail to see how anyone would want to play any other faction after these changes.

you guys should at least give him the decency to explain/elaborate in detail why you dont agree with his ideas.

He proved to be quite immune to explanations in pretty much every single other thread anyone attempted to do it.
No wonder people don't want to waste time and forum space.

That being said, his changes fix absolutely nothing and create even more imbalance with even more powerful OKW locking down armor even faster.

Panther arriving as soon or sooner then T34/76 would?
JP4 being able to his the field then halftrucks and armored cars have opportunity window?
Absolutely nothing to adress shreckblob and ubers? He completely ignored the sources of OKW imbalances, took the rest of the army and made sure every single unit is completely imbalanced and overpowered, his proposal to AA HT alone makes his post scream "I have no slightest idea what OKW units ares intended to do, but I'm ignore it and randomly buff them anyway even thou they perform excellent already".

Yea, right, screams balance.

One day in the great forest a magical frog was walking down to a water hole. This forest was so big that the frog had never seen another animal in all his life. By chance today a bear was chasing after a rabbit to have for dinner. The frog called for the two to stop. The frog said, "Because you are the only two animals I have seen, I will grant you both three wishes . . . Bear, you go first."

The bear thought for a minute, and being the male he was, said, "I wish for all the bears in this forest, besides me, to be female."

For his wish, the rabbit asked for a crash helmet, and immediately put it on. The bear was amazed at the stupidity of the rabbit, wasting his wish like that.

It was the bear's second turn for a wish. "Well, I wish that all the bears in the next forest were female as well."

Rabbit asked for a motorcycle and immediately hopped on it and gunned the engine. The bear was shocked that the rabbit was asking for these stupid things, after all, he could have asked for money and bought the motorcycle.

For the last wish the bear thought for awhile and then said, "I wish that all the bears in the world, besides me, were female."

The rabbit grinned, gunned the engine, and said, "I wish that the bear was gay!"

Alexzandar is the Bear with all his wishes
I'm the rabbit and my last wish is you only able to play USF faction.

The threshold for existing as a unit is so low than it being distributed in early 44' makes it more man capable of being a upgrade for Obers.

Really IR StG's just exist to help counter building garrisoning, and with the changes they could be taken away with out much teeth nashing, but I just find it silly to make the sticking point of realism here.

Sure if you wanna go with that...... But with that being said might as throw the IS-3 Pershing/Super Pershing, centurion and the only late-endwar equipment that basically saw little to no real combat

lol okw bias makes my nipples so pointy

i can use them as radio antennae to trasnmit data to the international space station

When you've even got Axis leaning players disagreeing with your suggestions Alex, it's time to back down.

You seem to have fixated on allied artillery strength (which is its single, rather unreliable, late game advantage) and want some of it for Axis, whilst not removing the elements which make OKW lategame OP already.

I'm glad you're not running Relic's balance team (though given the requirements here, you'd need to be in charge of the design team as well).

I'm not an axis leaning player or an allied player. And accusing people of fanboyism is probably the most lazy offensive thing regularly done on this site.

The point of the redesign is that you can't have artillery and lots of tanks. It's to encourage a player to spend resources wisely because they will be stretched thin fairly quickly.

Artillery takes up a lot of popcap, Obers and Sturms would take up even more popcap if they were moved to 5 man squads. The point is to have an elite army with lots of automatic weapons, but is stretched thin with out the resources to handle every situation. You also obviously didn't read any of the other posts in the thread, because Iv stated already that I think all artillery should be non-doctrine.

And the late game fuel penalty for the construction of heavy tanks makes OKW's late game weaker, not better. OKW is already at 66% reduced income, knock that down to 33% when they make their first KT/JT. This means that if they lose it they have to wait a LONG time before replacing it. This would make the KT far more balanced than the quite spammable IS2 currently is.

Im on mobile so wont say more but that this would be broken. Learn the game first. In 4v4 you can rush for Panther and get it around 12-13min. With such changes you would get Panther around 8-9min. Faster than Sherman
If you want to design something, think about all game modes, not just that you are playing. And 9min jadgpanzer in 1v1 still would be broken.

You have asserted this in every single thread you have ever posted in, and in 800 hours of COH2 Iv seen it happen exactly once. Stop assuming everything happens in a perfect world were Axis wins every engagement and has 100% map control when factoring in vehicle construction times.

And Iv already said it would be prudent with these changes to move the JPIV to T3.

Yeah learn the game first, obviously everything should be balanced around ones. Oh wait that's fucking stupid because more than 2 factions exist.

pretty pictures don't make bad ideas better

Sure, if mirror matches were enabled, because I fail to see how anyone would want to play any other faction after these changes.

Feel free to explain your logic.

He proved to be quite immune to explanations in pretty much every single other thread anyone attempted to do it.
No wonder people don't want to waste time and forum space.

That being said, his changes fix absolutely nothing and create even more imbalance with even more powerful OKW locking down armor even faster.

Panther arriving as soon or sooner then T34/76 would?
JP4 being able to his the field then halftrucks and armored cars have opportunity window?
Absolutely nothing to adress shreckblob and ubers? He completely ignored the sources of OKW imbalances, took the rest of the army and made sure every single unit is completely imbalanced and overpowered, his proposal to AA HT alone makes his post scream "I have no slightest idea what OKW units ares intended to do, but I'm ignore it and randomly buff them anyway even thou they perform excellent already".

Yea, right, screams balance.

JPIV wouldn't hit the field till you put T3 down, and it would be only marginally cheaper than a Panther which could max hit the field at ~19 minutes. And that's if you decide to make very little in the way of infantry.

The change to the AA HT puts on the level of the USF HT but with less range AND it has to stop to fire/suppress. So if that's unbalanced than why aren't you bitching in USF threads?

And if you actually read my post you would know that I addressed the shrek/obers thing already. Volks have an optional AI upgrade you can take in place of a shrek upgrade, and Sturms get a faust when your first HQ is set down meaning you don't need to rush shreks to deal with light armor.

You also actually have an AT gun capable of being built from the BG HQ, so really there isn't any need for roaming shrek blobs now that 1. You can actually make reliable infantry based AT and 2. You can actually get Anti Tank, Tanks.

I removed the LMG34 from Obers, made them more expensive due to them getting a 5th man, and they just have 3 StG 44's.

Again we have the same sad story of you never reading any of my posts and just dive bombing in with your 1 game to 300 posts ratio to call everyone who disagrees with you a noob/bad player/fanboy.

One day in the great forest a magical frog was walking down to a water hole. This forest was so big that the frog had never seen another animal in all his life. By chance today a bear was chasing after a rabbit to have for dinner. The frog called for the two to stop. The frog said, "Because you are the only two animals I have seen, I will grant you both three wishes . . . Bear, you go first."

The bear thought for a minute, and being the male he was, said, "I wish for all the bears in this forest, besides me, to be female."

For his wish, the rabbit asked for a crash helmet, and immediately put it on. The bear was amazed at the stupidity of the rabbit, wasting his wish like that.

It was the bear's second turn for a wish. "Well, I wish that all the bears in the next forest were female as well."

Rabbit asked for a motorcycle and immediately hopped on it and gunned the engine. The bear was shocked that the rabbit was asking for these stupid things, after all, he could have asked for money and bought the motorcycle.

For the last wish the bear thought for awhile and then said, "I wish that all the bears in the world, besides me, were female."

The rabbit grinned, gunned the engine, and said, "I wish that the bear was gay!"

Alexzandar is the Bear with all his wishes
I'm the rabbit and my last wish is you only able to play USF faction.

wow what an adorably creative way to add nothing to the discussion and Imply a fanboy, I'm touched by your dedication to saying nothing at all.

Sure if you wanna go with that...... But with that being said might as throw the IS-3 Pershing/Super Pershing, centurion and the only late-endwar equipment that basically saw little to no real combat

The Pershing wouldn't be a bad idea, but again if OKW had more ways to deal with buildings (and with these changes they do) then getting rid of IR StG's wouldn't be a problem IMO.