OKW manpower penalty?

Jump back to quoted post1 Mar 2015, 19:23 PMFaustCostBulletin

I think you're losing too many units in your 4v4 Axis spam games to one of the few things that actually work and that you're just venting here.

Jump back to quoted post1 Mar 2015, 19:21 PMBeltFedWombat

Alexzandvar if you can't see that shrekblobs with obers is the problem, and that you can't crush the obers because of homing shreks then I can't really help you.

Jump back to quoted post1 Mar 2015, 19:24 PMBeltFedWombat

I'm hardly venting and my example was 2 v 2. RTFP

Thanks for the snotty dig at team games though, another example of why this community is fucked.

Jump back to quoted post1 Mar 2015, 19:32 PMFaustCostBulletin

Uhh, I should have quoted, but I meant Alexzandvar. Why would I even say such a thing to you? You speak common sense man. Keep up, I don't want to be the one to discourage you.

The guy literally called indirect fire and vehicle crushes the biggest source of dead infantry. Ironically that is only true for Allies that lose a lot to the Stuka.

Jump back to quoted post1 Mar 2015, 21:59 PMOZtheWiZARD

Sorry I forgot to mention this topic is with 1v1 in mind as this is the mode Relic is focusing its balance effort.
I'd really appreciate 3v3 players referred from spaming here as their opinions are irrelevant in 1v1.
Thank you.

Jump back to quoted post1 Mar 2015, 23:53 PMAlexzandvar

Every single game mode has the same balance issues, except they escalate in significance as the game mode goes higher.

Jump back to quoted post2 Mar 2015, 00:36 AMelchino7

I'll disagree. Theres a huge difference between 1v1 and the rest.
Theres a huge difference between 2v2 and 3v3+

On 1v1, you can't rely on anyone to get AT, mines or have a commander which can cover the weakness of the one you've chosen.
You can't have M3 + double snipers + At guns + Maxims + mortar into T34 and katyushkas... Everysingle unit counts, wipes are harsh, forcing a huge retreat means losing the map control, etc. You spread your army and cap or you concentrate and engage with a higher popcap?

2v2 has some things of 1v1 while letting you field a wider variety of units and combinations.

USF: doesn't have as much problems on 1v1-2v2 in comparison to 3v3-4v4.
OKW: isn't as easy on 1v1 than 2v2 >>>>>>>> 3v3+
OH: is pretty harsh on 1v1, not on 2v2 >> 3v3+
SU: trololol...

Good idea. Considering that current OKW troops are very strong with vet. THis could be a good idea

Jump back to quoted post2 Mar 2015, 01:47 AMAlexzandvar

This wouldn't change them being good with vet, this would only make OKW garbage early game. Why should a units vet bonus's factor in to your income/cost at the very start of the game when nobody has vet?

Jump back to quoted post2 Mar 2015, 02:32 AMferwiner

And now you got the whole point! Okw should be very weak early game. It was designed that way. That's the only reason the faction got nondoctrinal heavy tank and 5 levels of vet! And even not just regular vet but bonuses that multiple the worth of squad. Balancewise there is no real need for a faction that is best in every stage of the game to exist at all.

Jump back to quoted post2 Mar 2015, 02:44 AMAlexzandvar

So what's the point of it being a faction if it's retardedly easy to lose in the first 9 minutes of the game? Allies are already on top early game, a MP income reduction would make it so all USF or Soviets would need to do is spam cons/rifles early game for a easy win.

No faction should be based around being only good at a certain part of the game, every faction should be equal no matter what the game clock is. OKW and Ostheer early game shouldn't be shit because they have good late game, Allies early game shouldn't be good just because they have shit late game.

Jump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 16:39 PMAvNY

Pretty much this is the problem. How is the '44-'45 model of the German army one where the 14 and 50 year old members of the Volksturm becoming better soldiers than veteran Soviet and American 20-25 year olds? How are the grizzled veterans of the Eastern Front now able to achieve even higher levels of vet to demigod like combat abilities?

Jump back to quoted post2 Mar 2015, 02:56 AMferwiner

Maybe it shouldn't but that is Relics attitude from very beginning in both coh2 and 1. It's a part of franchise in quite similar way to cover or reinforce. But if you want axis to have early game faction, and you want okw to be that faction you need to take all, and I mean all it gets for the late game. Early game faction is not the faction that stalls to get easy win in super late game but the faction that has to win greatly in early game and then tries to seal the deal during med game. Right now okw is definitely not that kind of faction. Usf was designed that way and it works pretty well.

Jump back to quoted post2 Mar 2015, 03:20 AMAlexzandvar

I'm sorry dude but I can't even tell what your trying to say. But the be all and end all of it is that OKW early game is already pretty anemic and we don't need a stupid MP penalty on top of that making it even worse.

Jump back to quoted post2 Mar 2015, 03:28 AMferwiner

What I wanted to say is that there are three ways of ballancing okw. First is to weaken it's early game and make it worked as planned by designers. The others are to make a huge overhaul of all factions (as you suggest) or change almost everything in that faction (like I said in last post).


So I guess I'm not misteaken to say that the first one is the easiest to do and the most probable to happen even if it makes axis faction strong in late game and allied factions strong in early game.