OKW manpower penalty?

Jump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 16:04 PMAlexzandvar

Reducing MP income isn't going to make them "elite" it's going to ruin OKW's early game chances even more. OKW's first units are by no standard "elite", Volk's are the worst baseline starting infantry in the game till they reach vet 3.

And MP would still happen because OKW will still eventually get all their units out, and then stop spending because they have no bloody fuel to spend MP on tanks/vehicles.

If you want OKW to be "elite" with reduced MP income make it so the starting units are "elite" and thus able to handle the immense amount of allied infantry on the field early game.



To bad OKW doesn't have the fuel to make vehicles. So even if you nerf the shit outa OKW infantry they will still be everywere because of the fuel penalty.



Why the hell should they cost more than Allied basic starting infantry when they are worse in every stat until Vet 3?

Jump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 16:08 PMWingZero

Because of how well they scale mid- late game plus shreks, and bullshit vet 5 abilities. The same rationale why Cons and Grens cost the same even though Cons dont scale well late game, while Grens are amazing all around. VG should be Cons and Cons should be VG stat wise, the utility of both infantry squads should make them equal in terms of cost.

Jump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 10:12 AMOZtheWiZARD

My reason is to let OKW stay the way it is. Elitist army with few but very powerful units on the field. Especially late game. Right now they are able to spam the hell out of infantry. This combined with insane Vet5 bonuses and very powerful units creates a composition that negates any infantry play late game. In one of the recent games I came across Vet5 Flashimjegers (or whatever you spell that) that obliterated my Rifles.

With less manpower you'll get less units which means OKW can keep their veterancy bonuses. Otherwise a serious rework is to be done.

Jump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 16:20 PMJaigen

You are only partially correct. Sure they have the most powerful elite infantry in the game. But at the same time they have perhaps the worst support weapons and baseline infantry in the game. Its my opnon that volks only get on par with the other baseline infantry at vet 5. And be honest how amny vet 5 volks do you see running around. in long games i usually have 1-2 of them and at that point they still can be one shotted.

And then their is the support weapons who are absolute thrash. The okw already gets some massive income penalties that gives them the right to vet 5. they dont need another added to it.

If you believe this will somehow fix shrek blobs then i will say you are wrong. The okw is going to need shreks to deal with usf and SU medium armour spam because 1 panther is really not going to cut it against 4 85's or e8's

Jump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 16:22 PMBurts

MG-34 > MG-42


Infact the MG-34 is quite overpowered due to the fact that OKW can spam so much of them with little to no side effect. Ostheer MG-42 is alot worse due to hard teching costs.

Jump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 16:29 PMAlexzandvar

Uh, it's markedly worse in every stat than the MG-42. Why would something that's worse cost more? And it's still a 4 man squad weapons team that takes additional fire thanks to the received accuracy negative modifier.

Like Christ on a cracker what is with people and thinking things that are shittier should cost more?

Jump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 16:17 PMAlexzandvar

Gren's are not amazing all around, they are a 4 man squad that can be wiped by a single 82mm mortar shell at enemy time, and they get owned by Rifles no matter how long the game goes on unless the USF player is an idiot who forgets to upgrade his rifles with 1919's or BARS.

There is not a single unit in the game who's cost is based on Vet abilities, Con's should scale better I agree, but VG's are cheap because they are a baseline infantry unit that needs vet in order to stand up to vet 0 conscripts.

Jump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 16:22 PMBurts

MG-34 > MG-42


Infact the MG-34 is quite overpowered due to the fact that OKW can spam so much of them with little to no side effect. Ostheer MG-42 is alot worse due to hard teching costs.

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2015, 22:56 PMQueenRatchet123

MP penalty?

I dunno...

Change thier vet.

Vet 5 OKW units receive force fields and laser guided armaments

Jump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 16:35 PMBurts

Yes it's worse than the mg-42 in ever way. But that does not matter since OKW can easily spam out 3-4 of them while still easily being able to have 4 volks 2 obers and still have no problem getting a panther. Play againts an OKW player in the top 20 or higher, and you will see what is the problem.


Ostheer cannot spam out 3-4 MG-42s, because they wont have enough grens then. OKW isin't hampered by such issues. Of course this isin't a problem with the mg-34 itself, but rather OKW suffering too little MP bleed.

You are factoring RNG wipes that both factions face? No. Grens are superb all around with LMGs, if you don't agree than play Ostheer more. VG should cost 240mp just like the rest of the mainline infantry.

Jump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 16:40 PMAlexzandvar

Ostheer can't spam anything, and the solution is to fix the MP float not to raise the price on the crappiest MG in the game which is a grand total of 2 OKW doctrines, only 1 of which is any good.



I play Ostheer just as much as I play OKW, and LMG grens are good, but they still blow ass against Rifle hordes no matter how long the game progresses.

And Volks costing 240 is going to fix literally nothing, yeah 5 extra MP big whoop.

Jump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 16:40 PMAlexzandvar

Ostheer can't spam anything, and the solution is to fix the MP float not to raise the price on the crappiest MG in the game which is a grand total of 2 OKW doctrines, only 1 of which is any good.



I play Ostheer just as much as I play OKW, and LMG grens are good, but they still blow ass against Rifle hordes no matter how long the game progresses.

And Volks costing 240 is going to fix literally nothing, yeah 5 extra MP big whoop.

Jump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 16:35 PMBurts

Yes it's worse than the mg-42 in ever way. But that does not matter since OKW can easily spam out 3-4 of them while still easily being able to have 4 volks 2 obers and still have no problem getting a panther. Play againts an OKW player in the top 20 or higher, and you will see what is the problem.


Ostheer cannot spam out 3-4 MG-42s, because they wont have enough grens then. OKW isin't hampered by such issues. Of course this isin't a problem with the mg-34 itself, but rather OKW suffering too little MP bleed.

Jump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 16:44 PMWingZero

This will definitely solve the main power drain problem a little, which is the topic of the thread. Also, increasing reinforcement cost as they vet 3+.

You are putting 1 Gren squad against horde of Rifles is a L2P issue, learn to retreat and support your grens with MG-42.

So which of the OKW doctrines with mg-34 is bad in yor opinion? Oh , and ostheer can indeed spam grens. Have you never faced someone who spams 6+ grens? It's what you do when someone spams conscripts againts you...

And of course the OKW mp float needs to be fixed, not the mg-34, the mg-34 as a unit is fine

Jump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 16:52 PMRollo

Except that pretty much never happens, three volks + 2 MG34's and then on to falls/obers is the meta. Not sure what high level players you've been watching, but I can't imagine they can be be that effective with a four MG BO.

Jump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 16:53 PMAlexzandvar

Fortifications is the second or third best OKW doctrine atm.

Jump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 16:53 PMBurts

Maybe not 4 mg-34s

Jump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 16:53 PMAlexzandvar

I do support my grens with a HT, MG-42, and multiple other things but that isn't going to stop a 1919 horde of rifles or a BAR's player who knows how to use smoke. Don't assume the person your arguing with is an idiot, and you won't get embarrassed like this.

And raising the reinforcement cost will again, do nothing because the MP float is a matter of lacking options to spend it on new units, not a case of to cheap reinforcement.



Luftwaffe is pretty subpar in every way compared to the other doctrines you can take, it's expensive munitions wise, and Fallsch are very much glass cannons. On urban maps with lots of cover they are okay, but require a shitload more micro for what they can actually get done.

Fortifications is the second or third best OKW doctrine atm.

And yes I have faced off against gren spammers, but not for long because something something mortars something something smoke something something tanks.

Jump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 18:12 PMWingZero

I am pretty sure you embarrassed yourself countless time in this Form "KV1 better than Tiger" lol. By the time USF player unlocks 1919 with the commander AND equip his "Horde", I think a fast P4 will have something to say about this.

Man power drain can come from high reinforcement cost as well. Do you not build 2+ Obers when you always play OKW?

Jump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 16:35 PMBurts

Yes it's worse than the mg-42 in ever way. But that does not matter since OKW can easily spam out 3-4 of them while still easily being able to have 4 volks 2 obers and still have no problem getting a panther. Play againts an OKW player in the top 20 or higher, and you will see what is the problem.


Ostheer cannot spam out 3-4 MG-42s, because they wont have enough grens then. OKW isin't hampered by such issues. Of course this isin't a problem with the mg-34 itself, but rather OKW suffering too little MP bleed.