So it just feels like across all game sizes if a player is floating MP and/or Fuel he'll think to himself "Well I can always replace this Tiger/IS-2/KV-8 etc, so let's just charge recklessly and see how much damage we can do...". Not for nothing but I think players should be careful and preservation-minded at all stages of the game...even and especially when they are winning.
So for instance if you only had 1 or 2 (maybe 3 in the bigger game modes) IS-2s or Tigers per game, period...you might not be so hasty to charge without support or into insane odds just because you can instantly replace your call-in if it's taken out.
The tier buildings would get some good use as a result since players will want to support heavies with a good medium tank force. And if you lose you call-ins...you should be held back if your opponent manages to make a good comeback.
Of course this might cause other issues, so please discuss.
Should Commander call-ins have a limit per game?
25 Feb 2015, 21:52 PM
#1
Posts: 440
25 Feb 2015, 22:30 PM
#2
3 
Posts: 658
YES! BUT that's only possible if you adjust vanilla factions' teching to bring it more in line with the new WFA.
Soviet fuel cost for T3/T4 should be lowered, for example, once you've built t3 or t4, the other tier costs 50% less.
Wehrmacht teching should be like this: cheap BPs, more expensive buildings.
Example: 100MP + 15FU for every BP, 140MP + 35FU (T2), 140MP + 50FU (T3) and 140MP + 65FU for T4.
Heavy call-ins (10CPs and above) should have a limit of 2 + a fuel penalty of 50% once you have built a second one.
T34/85 should have a limit of 4 because they're no heavy tanks (obviously). KV-1s should probably have a limit as well.
Why the fuel penalty? Well, if someone decides to go for a second heavy instead of teching up and getting some stock units as support, he should pay the price: reduced fuel income to make it harder to replace lost heavies.
I don't see any reason why a limitation for certain tanks couldn't be done. A limit for some heavy tanks together with a tech overhaul for vanilla factions would really refresh the current meta IMO.
Soviet fuel cost for T3/T4 should be lowered, for example, once you've built t3 or t4, the other tier costs 50% less.
Wehrmacht teching should be like this: cheap BPs, more expensive buildings.
Example: 100MP + 15FU for every BP, 140MP + 35FU (T2), 140MP + 50FU (T3) and 140MP + 65FU for T4.
Heavy call-ins (10CPs and above) should have a limit of 2 + a fuel penalty of 50% once you have built a second one.
T34/85 should have a limit of 4 because they're no heavy tanks (obviously). KV-1s should probably have a limit as well.
Why the fuel penalty? Well, if someone decides to go for a second heavy instead of teching up and getting some stock units as support, he should pay the price: reduced fuel income to make it harder to replace lost heavies.
I don't see any reason why a limitation for certain tanks couldn't be done. A limit for some heavy tanks together with a tech overhaul for vanilla factions would really refresh the current meta IMO.
26 Feb 2015, 01:11 AM
#3
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently BannedBut i like to spam 
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
26 Feb 2015, 01:35 AM
#4
Posts: 556
But i like being german superman...
26 Feb 2015, 02:39 AM
#5
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
But i like being german superman...
Every time this thread comes out, people don't realize this would hurt allies far, far more than it would hurt Axis.
26 Feb 2015, 03:13 AM
#6
Posts: 365
yes but only for heavy tanks.
26 Feb 2015, 07:32 AM
#7
Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1
Nope, absolutely not if you ask me. The call in meta (call in spam actually) is a pain in the ass we all know that, and and every faction expect OKW can exploit that, because their core units are viable enough that they don't need to rely on call ins.
This can not be said for other factions. USF should spam E8s to finish the game before the arrival of KT/JGDPZ. For soviets, spamming call ins is cheaper. Limiting the call-ins is like taking a pain killer, it reduces your pain but the underlying problem is still there, and is getting worse.
Players should have a lot of options to play, and one of the should be relying on call-ins. If you give them good core units, they would change their play style.
This can not be said for other factions. USF should spam E8s to finish the game before the arrival of KT/JGDPZ. For soviets, spamming call ins is cheaper. Limiting the call-ins is like taking a pain killer, it reduces your pain but the underlying problem is still there, and is getting worse.
Players should have a lot of options to play, and one of the should be relying on call-ins. If you give them good core units, they would change their play style.
26 Feb 2015, 07:34 AM
#8
Posts: 1042
Nope.
Factions like Soviets will have no chance without their call ins.
Meanwhile OKW's core units are on a par with other nation's call ins.
Factions like Soviets will have no chance without their call ins.
Meanwhile OKW's core units are on a par with other nation's call ins.
26 Feb 2015, 07:55 AM
#9
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Nope.
Factions like Soviets will have no chance without their call ins.
Meanwhile OKW's core units are on a par with other nation's call ins.
This is by design, as USF and OKW's commanders are supposed to fill "holes" in the core comp units for the respective factions, so OKW gets a heavy Pak, and USF get's some on map arty.
For Soviets, the commander units ARE their core units, your supposed to base your entire strat around your commander. Ostheer is kinda in the middle.
26 Feb 2015, 08:15 AM
#10
Posts: 1042
For Soviets, the commander units ARE their core units, your supposed to base your entire strat around your commander.
Has Relic stated this? I'm just interested.
26 Feb 2015, 08:46 AM
#11
9 
Posts: 1194 | Subs: 29
This would really just make allies late game even worse
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26 Feb 2015, 09:06 AM
#12
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
You have limited resources and have pop cap. Why more limits?
If you was good enough to reserve manpower while holding fuel then you deserve to make another call-in.
If you was good enough to reserve manpower while holding fuel then you deserve to make another call-in.
26 Feb 2015, 09:53 AM
#13
4 
Posts: 369
This is by design, as USF and OKW's commanders are supposed to fill "holes" in the core comp units for the respective factions, so OKW gets a heavy Pak, and USF get's some on map arty.
For Soviets, the commander units ARE their core units, your supposed to base your entire strat around your commander. Ostheer is kinda in the middle.
Even if it is by design, it's bad design, and something should be done about it. There's no point in having 20 commanders if only a couple of them are viable because they happen to have call-in units.
26 Feb 2015, 10:58 AM
#14
Posts: 271
I dont see why you cant put some minor limits on it, like 4 ez8's or two is2 maybe. My two cents. If you wrecked your is2's or ez8's boohoo. Minor limitations, maybe on only vehicles even. You can rely on call ins but it shouldnt be the only thing your doing, a supported well used is2 is enough.
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26 Feb 2015, 12:34 PM
#15
Posts: 521
Every time this thread comes out, people don't realize this would hurt allies far, far more than it would hurt Axis.
Agreed. Ost spams Tiger not because it has to but it is the most effective option. Soviets outright depend in allins as their stock units are flat out bad at.
There is a link to my thread in my signature where I propose a solution to the Soviet call in meta problem without reinventing the wheel. Making Ostwind worthwhile would also make StuG E less important while buffing Ost T3's red headed stepchild so it's win-win.
Heavies need to be cost ineffective as right now they are low risk high reward. You shouldn't be limited, you should just be discouraged to get multiples. Higher popcap and a serious fuel nerf is the way forward. And then give Ace a lower but existent Fuel cost.
Find out about my redesign of all four factions, with more to come!
Feel free to contact me regarding your Attribute Editor-related questions.
Feel free to contact me regarding your Attribute Editor-related questions.
26 Feb 2015, 12:35 PM
#16
Posts: 521
-accidental doublepost-
Find out about my redesign of all four factions, with more to come!
Feel free to contact me regarding your Attribute Editor-related questions.
Feel free to contact me regarding your Attribute Editor-related questions.
26 Feb 2015, 12:56 PM
#17
Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1
Even if it is by design, it's bad design, and something should be done about it. There's no point in having 20 commanders if only a couple of them are viable because they happen to have call-in units.
It is by design, and it is bad design. I remember someone from relic mentioned something about Cons are not meant to be late game units or you have to rely on your commanders BLAH BLAH, but I'm no sure where or when I've heard/seen something like this.
26 Feb 2015, 13:04 PM
#18
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
One heavy at the field at a time. And I'm talking real heavies, not KV-1.
Other ideas are frankly bad.
Other ideas are frankly bad.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
26 Feb 2015, 13:52 PM
#19
Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4
Permanently Banned
Even if it is by design, it's bad design, and something should be done about it. There's no point in having 20 commanders if only a couple of them are viable because they happen to have call-in units.
+++
Relic killing our game, lets save COH2 from Relic 
If you're not a ахіs lover when you're 20, you have no heart. If you're not a soviet fanboy by the time you're 30, you have no brain.
Relic delenda est
If Dane will be have son, he will be call him (Sturmgeschütz)
Brotheres, what we do in coh2, ehoes in eternity
If you're not a ахіs lover when you're 20, you have no heart. If you're not a soviet fanboy by the time you're 30, you have no brain.
Relic delenda est
If Dane will be have son, he will be call him (Sturmgeschütz)
Brotheres, what we do in coh2, ehoes in eternity
26 Feb 2015, 13:54 PM
#20
Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4
Permanently BannedWhat about limit for panthers ? Thay are not callins (comm panther) but people spam them. Interesting idea about only 1 heavy tanks from Katitof.
Thay are not callins (comm panther) but people spam them. Interesting idea about only 1 heavy tanks from Katitof.
Relic killing our game, lets save COH2 from Relic
If you're not a ахіs lover when you're 20, you have no heart. If you're not a soviet fanboy by the time you're 30, you have no brain.
Relic delenda est
If Dane will be have son, he will be call him (Sturmgeschütz)
Brotheres, what we do in coh2, ehoes in eternity
If you're not a ахіs lover when you're 20, you have no heart. If you're not a soviet fanboy by the time you're 30, you have no brain.
Relic delenda est
If Dane will be have son, he will be call him (Sturmgeschütz)
Brotheres, what we do in coh2, ehoes in eternity
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