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Stormtroopers

2 May 2015, 00:23 AM
#21
avatar of keithsboredom

Posts: 117

jump backJump back to quoted post1 May 2015, 23:20 PMShizuo
I think this commander is heavy muni based but I love to use Stormtroopers!! 5 storms 2 with STG and 3 with Schreks!


sounds like a man power sinkhole to me
2 May 2015, 00:35 AM
#22
avatar of Banillo

Posts: 134

they require to much xp to vet up to vet3, but i like their reinforcement speed and cost... supported wit a ht they are a better choice than p grens (when you take away the muni cost for the upgrade)

a muni cost reduction to 80 for the upgrade would help

the issue is they come in a very situational doctrine.

if (when) we get custom commanders i think we will se them more.
2 May 2015, 00:57 AM
#23
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770


I would fact check if I could. But it is for certain that panzergrenadiers have .80 received acc. .87 is what it used to be but was changed.

As of september 9th 2014: Received accuracy modifier from 0.87 to 0.8


I think you confuse them with sturmpioneers. SP's have 0.87 ST 0.75. At least that is what the data miners say.
2 May 2015, 01:27 AM
#24
avatar of Jaedrik

Posts: 446 | Subs: 2

http://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide#1230

http://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide#1227

http://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide#1226

http://www.coh2-stats.com/soldiers/stormtroopers_mp

http://www.coh2-stats.com/soldiers/panzer_grenadiers_mp

http://www.coh2-stats.com/soldiers/grenadiers_mp

Is the vet guide outdated? It's probably the most relevant.
-29% received accuracy and +40% accuracy on both, just swapped which vet level they're gotten at. Pgrens get an extra -25% weapon cooldown. Pgrens are straight up better in every way minus reinforce, and even then Storms cost one more population for a full squad (8 compared to 9).
Comparing to regular Grenadiers, which have the same accuracy bonus, but only -23% received accuracy mod and -20% weapon cooldown.
And, don't forget that the MP-44s cost muni for storms.

I'd like to see the Stormtrooper get a 5th member, and set the pop cost of models at 1.8.
That, or give them Ober Kars, or souped-up MP-40s, by default, and the MP-44 upgrade give them to all members for only 40 or so muni. Aww yeah.
Heck, not all the models have to be the same either. Can we just give a few of them Ober Kars / STG minus IR?, or randomly designate one the 'leader' like the Assault Grenadiers squad and give him 1.5 armor or some random buff?
More random stuff like that on squad members would be rad. :D

Edit: And we have a ton of options, not just Ober Kars or IR MP44 (there are 7 different MP-44s).
2 May 2015, 02:16 AM
#25
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

It's right guys, I got this for ya. The attribute editor comes to our rescue!

Stormtroopers have a 0.75 received accuracy modifier, Panzergrenadiers have 0.8.

Stormtroopers reinforce at 33.75 manpower, Panzergrenadiers at 42.5.

Their weapons are alike, though Panzergrenadiers have 1.2 increased accuracy while Stormtroopers have 1.15 (the 15% accuracy increase in the latter's case is certainly for the purpose of increasing lethality from the March Deployment's purposes - it is present on virtually all frontline infantry units).

Despite coh2.org's veterancy guide, the attribute editor is actually telling me that the sum of the total vet bonuses are really alike - the difference is when they get them. The Stormtroopers receive the +40% accuracy and +25% bundled grenade range at vet 2, then the -25% weapon cooldown and -29% received accuracy at vet 3. Panzergrenadiers get the same cooldown and received accuracy at vet 2, and the same accuracy and bundled grenade range at vet 3.
2 May 2015, 02:21 AM
#26
avatar of Tea Maker Machine

Posts: 270

If you want the most accurate and up to date stats you have to extract them from the game files. The ones in the attribute editor don't get updated as often as they should. For example Jackson 's DPS is showing its old value.
2 May 2015, 02:24 AM
#27
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

If you want the most accurate and up to date stats you have to extract them from the game files. The ones in the attribute editor don't get updated as often as they should. For example Jackson 's DPS is showing its old value.

Thanks for the tip. In the Stormtroopers' case though hopefully they didn't not actually flat out remove their cooldown bonus from vet since it's not stated in any of their patch notes...but as we all know, ninja changes are hardly unlikely.
2 May 2015, 03:07 AM
#28
avatar of turbotortoise

Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4

bravo to the empiricism and constructive conversation demonstrated in this thread!!
2 May 2015, 03:28 AM
#29
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

bravo to the empiricism and constructive conversation demonstrated in this thread!!


you really needed to say empiricism didnt you
2 May 2015, 03:50 AM
#30
avatar of turbotortoise

Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4



you really needed to say empiricism didnt you


hahahha,
wellll i mean, i coulda used "analytics" but i really appreciated the in game comparisons. i really like threads like these that have contained rational critiques which evolve into tactics. it's people elbow deep, trying to search for edges hidden within factions. i think it's exciting.
2 May 2015, 04:25 AM
#31
avatar of Jaedrik

Posts: 446 | Subs: 2

Empiricism? Not as I understand it, at least~
Primarily, it says that knowledge can only be what is known via sense-experience. While this is undoubtedly true that all knowledge has its root in sense-experience, Empiricism lacks explanation for such supersensuous things as ideas, produced by the immaterial faculty known as the intellect.
Just as, Empiricism couldn't find the essential idea of being underpowered in Stormtroopers--it couldn't discover that, or even so much as guess that, since there is no guessing without ideas or intellect. Yet, we have demonstrated it through... many means, numbers in no way the least!



hahahha,
wellll i mean, i coulda used "analytics" but i really appreciated the in game comparisons. i really like threads like these that have contained rational critiques which evolve into tactics. it's people elbow deep, trying to search for edges hidden within factions. i think it's exciting.

Aye, aye.
This is why I love the Den Kirson community. We (and by we, I mean Marvel4 and Probaddie nowadays :D) sniff through their game files and get the actual stats of Call of Duty, none of the abstract... bars on weapon descriptions, often misleading and inaccurate. Even though I don't play CoD any more, the principle is the same. Some better understanding is hidden deeper in the game files, somewhere!
2 May 2015, 05:39 AM
#32
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1

bravo to the empiricism and constructive conversation demonstrated in this thread!!


Permission to troll and hijack the thread?

2 May 2015, 06:01 AM
#33
avatar of steel

Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2015, 05:39 AMRMMLz


Permission to troll and hijack the thread?

:banned::spam::banned::jk:



On-topic:

I find that they are more of ambush troops instead of offensive troops. The panzerschreck is not worth getting IMO.
2 May 2015, 07:12 AM
#34
avatar of turbotortoise

Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4

cataclaw played really well against me last patch in a game with that commander. my ambulance had 3 teamkills :D

...

i love CTP in principle, like sector arty on a day off on one and it utilizes the skills with the commander and the units. is it worth having in your loadout? frankly, i didn't know it existed since that game, so, i'll hazard a guess and say not many people can be bothered with it.

jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2015, 05:39 AMRMMLz


Permission to troll and hijack the thread?


2 May 2015, 07:21 AM
#35
avatar of turbotortoise

Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4

Empiricism? Not as I understand it, at least~
Primarily, it says that knowledge can only be what is known via sense-experience. While this is undoubtedly true that all knowledge has its root in sense-experience, Empiricism lacks explanation for such supersensuous things as ideas, produced by the immaterial faculty known as the intellect.
Just as, Empiricism couldn't find the essential idea of being underpowered in Stormtroopers--it couldn't discover that, or even so much as guess that, since there is no guessing without ideas or intellect. Yet, we have demonstrated it through... many means, numbers in no way the least!


Mmmm! I was interpreting the discussion via everyone's in game experiences, discussing the role the storms play and how it sort of betrays their stats/vet bonuses, but perhaps I was trying to stretch that one a littttleee too far ;)

Aye, aye. Some better understanding is hidden deeper in the game files, somewhere!


And you lot always manage to find it! xD
One of the things I love most about games is how systems can get almost bastardized, y'know what is "proper use" after all. I imagine it's neigh on impossible to predict when developing a game how it's going to pulled and tweaked with, IE truck pushing (NOT ABOUT TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION >:( ) just that I find that... drive, to push limits, always really cool, and frankly important to the evolution of our game.
nee
2 May 2015, 10:21 AM
#36
avatar of nee

Posts: 1216

It's kind of like Luftwaffe Ground Forces and their Fallschirmjaegers- they're not great except for a pop from behind. Versatile but comes at a cost. Certainly not a unit that will replace Grenadiers or Panzergrenadiers, but they make great supplements if you ever need them.
2 May 2015, 10:29 AM
#37
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2015, 10:21 AMnee
It's kind of like Luftwaffe Ground Forces and their Fallschirmjaegers- they're not great except for a pop from behind. Versatile but comes at a cost. Certainly not a unit that will replace Grenadiers or Panzergrenadiers, but they make great supplements if you ever need them.


They would both be a lot more useful if there was less chance of getting Insta-wiped. But right now they are only good to take out a maxim or an ATG early game like you said.
2 May 2015, 11:37 AM
#38
avatar of Sarantini
Honorary Member Badge
Donator 22

Posts: 2181

jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2015, 02:16 AMVuther
It's right guys, I got this for ya. The attribute editor comes to our rescue!

Stormtroopers have a 0.75 received accuracy modifier, Panzergrenadiers have 0.8.

Stormtroopers reinforce at 33.75 manpower, Panzergrenadiers at 42.5.

Their weapons are alike, though Panzergrenadiers have 1.2 increased accuracy while Stormtroopers have 1.15 (the 15% accuracy increase in the latter's case is certainly for the purpose of increasing lethality from the March Deployment's purposes - it is present on virtually all frontline infantry units).

Despite coh2.org's veterancy guide, the attribute editor is actually telling me that the sum of the total vet bonuses are really alike - the difference is when they get them. The Stormtroopers receive the +40% accuracy and +25% bundled grenade range at vet 2, then the -25% weapon cooldown and -29% received accuracy at vet 3. Panzergrenadiers get the same cooldown and received accuracy at vet 2, and the same accuracy and bundled grenade range at vet 3.

could you post on the vet guide what is missing then ill update it?
2 May 2015, 14:40 PM
#39
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 978

You all have the commander? I still didn´t get it. Gotta love the war spoils system. :(

I imagine them being a choice for skipping T2 and not getting caught with your pants down for not having PGrens/ Paks.
2 May 2015, 14:42 PM
#40
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

You all have the commander? I still didn´t get it. Gotta love the war spoils system. :(

I imagine them being a choice for skipping T2 and not getting caught with your pants down for not having PGrens/ Paks.


you can always donate to relik
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