I think this commander is heavy muni based but I love to use Stormtroopers!! 5 storms 2 with STG and 3 with Schreks!
sounds like a man power sinkhole to me
Stormtroopers
2 May 2015, 00:23 AM
#21
Posts: 117
sounds like a man power sinkhole to me
2 May 2015, 00:35 AM
#22
Posts: 134
they require to much xp to vet up to vet3, but i like their reinforcement speed and cost... supported wit a ht they are a better choice than p grens (when you take away the muni cost for the upgrade)
a muni cost reduction to 80 for the upgrade would help
the issue is they come in a very situational doctrine.
if (when) we get custom commanders i think we will se them more.
a muni cost reduction to 80 for the upgrade would help
the issue is they come in a very situational doctrine.
if (when) we get custom commanders i think we will se them more.
2 May 2015, 00:57 AM
#23
Posts: 770
I would fact check if I could. But it is for certain that panzergrenadiers have .80 received acc. .87 is what it used to be but was changed.
As of september 9th 2014: Received accuracy modifier from 0.87 to 0.8
I think you confuse them with sturmpioneers. SP's have 0.87 ST 0.75. At least that is what the data miners say.
2 May 2015, 01:27 AM
#24
Posts: 446 | Subs: 2
http://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide#1230
http://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide#1227
http://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide#1226
http://www.coh2-stats.com/soldiers/stormtroopers_mp
http://www.coh2-stats.com/soldiers/panzer_grenadiers_mp
http://www.coh2-stats.com/soldiers/grenadiers_mp
Is the vet guide outdated? It's probably the most relevant.
-29% received accuracy and +40% accuracy on both, just swapped which vet level they're gotten at. Pgrens get an extra -25% weapon cooldown. Pgrens are straight up better in every way minus reinforce, and even then Storms cost one more population for a full squad (8 compared to 9).
Comparing to regular Grenadiers, which have the same accuracy bonus, but only -23% received accuracy mod and -20% weapon cooldown.
And, don't forget that the MP-44s cost muni for storms.
I'd like to see the Stormtrooper get a 5th member, and set the pop cost of models at 1.8.
That, or give them Ober Kars, or souped-up MP-40s, by default, and the MP-44 upgrade give them to all members for only 40 or so muni. Aww yeah.
Heck, not all the models have to be the same either. Can we just give a few of them Ober Kars / STG minus IR?, or randomly designate one the 'leader' like the Assault Grenadiers squad and give him 1.5 armor or some random buff?
More random stuff like that on squad members would be rad.
Edit: And we have a ton of options, not just Ober Kars or IR MP44 (there are 7 different MP-44s).
http://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide#1227
http://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide#1226
http://www.coh2-stats.com/soldiers/stormtroopers_mp
http://www.coh2-stats.com/soldiers/panzer_grenadiers_mp
http://www.coh2-stats.com/soldiers/grenadiers_mp
Is the vet guide outdated? It's probably the most relevant.
-29% received accuracy and +40% accuracy on both, just swapped which vet level they're gotten at. Pgrens get an extra -25% weapon cooldown. Pgrens are straight up better in every way minus reinforce, and even then Storms cost one more population for a full squad (8 compared to 9).
Comparing to regular Grenadiers, which have the same accuracy bonus, but only -23% received accuracy mod and -20% weapon cooldown.
And, don't forget that the MP-44s cost muni for storms.
I'd like to see the Stormtrooper get a 5th member, and set the pop cost of models at 1.8.
That, or give them Ober Kars, or souped-up MP-40s, by default, and the MP-44 upgrade give them to all members for only 40 or so muni. Aww yeah.
Heck, not all the models have to be the same either. Can we just give a few of them Ober Kars / STG minus IR?, or randomly designate one the 'leader' like the Assault Grenadiers squad and give him 1.5 armor or some random buff?
More random stuff like that on squad members would be rad.
Edit: And we have a ton of options, not just Ober Kars or IR MP44 (there are 7 different MP-44s).
Dear Lord, teach me to be generous; to give and not count the cost; to fight and not heed the wounds; to work and ask for no reward, save that of knowing I am doing Your will.
Argumentation, disagreement, and debate are critical for success.
The most important type of diversity is viewpoint diversity.
Argumentation, disagreement, and debate are critical for success.
The most important type of diversity is viewpoint diversity.
2 May 2015, 02:16 AM
#25
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
It's right guys, I got this for ya. The attribute editor comes to our rescue!
Stormtroopers have a 0.75 received accuracy modifier, Panzergrenadiers have 0.8.
Stormtroopers reinforce at 33.75 manpower, Panzergrenadiers at 42.5.
Their weapons are alike, though Panzergrenadiers have 1.2 increased accuracy while Stormtroopers have 1.15 (the 15% accuracy increase in the latter's case is certainly for the purpose of increasing lethality from the March Deployment's purposes - it is present on virtually all frontline infantry units).
Despite coh2.org's veterancy guide, the attribute editor is actually telling me that the sum of the total vet bonuses are really alike - the difference is when they get them. The Stormtroopers receive the +40% accuracy and +25% bundled grenade range at vet 2, then the -25% weapon cooldown and -29% received accuracy at vet 3. Panzergrenadiers get the same cooldown and received accuracy at vet 2, and the same accuracy and bundled grenade range at vet 3.
Stormtroopers have a 0.75 received accuracy modifier, Panzergrenadiers have 0.8.
Stormtroopers reinforce at 33.75 manpower, Panzergrenadiers at 42.5.
Their weapons are alike, though Panzergrenadiers have 1.2 increased accuracy while Stormtroopers have 1.15 (the 15% accuracy increase in the latter's case is certainly for the purpose of increasing lethality from the March Deployment's purposes - it is present on virtually all frontline infantry units).
Despite coh2.org's veterancy guide, the attribute editor is actually telling me that the sum of the total vet bonuses are really alike - the difference is when they get them. The Stormtroopers receive the +40% accuracy and +25% bundled grenade range at vet 2, then the -25% weapon cooldown and -29% received accuracy at vet 3. Panzergrenadiers get the same cooldown and received accuracy at vet 2, and the same accuracy and bundled grenade range at vet 3.
2 May 2015, 02:21 AM
#26
Posts: 270
If you want the most accurate and up to date stats you have to extract them from the game files. The ones in the attribute editor don't get updated as often as they should. For example Jackson 's DPS is showing its old value.
I'll try again.
The source of my frustrations that should be removed
2 May 2015, 02:24 AM
#27
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
If you want the most accurate and up to date stats you have to extract them from the game files. The ones in the attribute editor don't get updated as often as they should. For example Jackson 's DPS is showing its old value.
Thanks for the tip. In the Stormtroopers' case though hopefully they didn't not actually flat out remove their cooldown bonus from vet since it's not stated in any of their patch notes...but as we all know, ninja changes are hardly unlikely.
2 May 2015, 03:07 AM
#28
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
bravo to the empiricism and constructive conversation demonstrated in this thread!!
2 May 2015, 03:28 AM
#29
Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1
bravo to the empiricism and constructive conversation demonstrated in this thread!!
you really needed to say empiricism didnt you
servant to the vet 5 königskübel
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
2 May 2015, 03:50 AM
#30
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
you really needed to say empiricism didnt you
hahahha,
wellll i mean, i coulda used "analytics" but i really appreciated the in game comparisons. i really like threads like these that have contained rational critiques which evolve into tactics. it's people elbow deep, trying to search for edges hidden within factions. i think it's exciting.
2 May 2015, 04:25 AM
#31
Posts: 446 | Subs: 2
Empiricism? Not as I understand it, at least~
Primarily, it says that knowledge can only be what is known via sense-experience. While this is undoubtedly true that all knowledge has its root in sense-experience, Empiricism lacks explanation for such supersensuous things as ideas, produced by the immaterial faculty known as the intellect.
Just as, Empiricism couldn't find the essential idea of being underpowered in Stormtroopers--it couldn't discover that, or even so much as guess that, since there is no guessing without ideas or intellect. Yet, we have demonstrated it through... many means, numbers in no way the least!
Aye, aye.
This is why I love the Den Kirson community. We (and by we, I mean Marvel4 and Probaddie nowadays) sniff through their game files and get the actual stats of Call of Duty, none of the abstract... bars on weapon descriptions, often misleading and inaccurate. Even though I don't play CoD any more, the principle is the same. Some better understanding is hidden deeper in the game files, somewhere!
Primarily, it says that knowledge can only be what is known via sense-experience. While this is undoubtedly true that all knowledge has its root in sense-experience, Empiricism lacks explanation for such supersensuous things as ideas, produced by the immaterial faculty known as the intellect.
Just as, Empiricism couldn't find the essential idea of being underpowered in Stormtroopers--it couldn't discover that, or even so much as guess that, since there is no guessing without ideas or intellect. Yet, we have demonstrated it through... many means, numbers in no way the least!
hahahha,
wellll i mean, i coulda used "analytics" but i really appreciated the in game comparisons. i really like threads like these that have contained rational critiques which evolve into tactics. it's people elbow deep, trying to search for edges hidden within factions. i think it's exciting.
Aye, aye.
This is why I love the Den Kirson community. We (and by we, I mean Marvel4 and Probaddie nowadays
) sniff through their game files and get the actual stats of Call of Duty, none of the abstract... bars on weapon descriptions, often misleading and inaccurate. Even though I don't play CoD any more, the principle is the same. Some better understanding is hidden deeper in the game files, somewhere!
Dear Lord, teach me to be generous; to give and not count the cost; to fight and not heed the wounds; to work and ask for no reward, save that of knowing I am doing Your will.
Argumentation, disagreement, and debate are critical for success.
The most important type of diversity is viewpoint diversity.
Argumentation, disagreement, and debate are critical for success.
The most important type of diversity is viewpoint diversity.
2 May 2015, 05:39 AM
#32
Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1
bravo to the empiricism and constructive conversation demonstrated in this thread!!
Permission to troll and hijack the thread?
2 May 2015, 06:01 AM
#33
Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1
Permission to troll and hijack the thread?
On-topic:
I find that they are more of ambush troops instead of offensive troops. The panzerschreck is not worth getting IMO.
_____________________________________________________________________________
2 May 2015, 07:12 AM
#34
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
cataclaw played really well against me last patch in a game with that commander. my ambulance had 3 teamkills
...
i love CTP in principle, like sector arty on a day off on one and it utilizes the skills with the commander and the units. is it worth having in your loadout? frankly, i didn't know it existed since that game, so, i'll hazard a guess and say not many people can be bothered with it.
...
i love CTP in principle, like sector arty on a day off on one and it utilizes the skills with the commander and the units. is it worth having in your loadout? frankly, i didn't know it existed since that game, so, i'll hazard a guess and say not many people can be bothered with it.
Permission to troll and hijack the thread?
2 May 2015, 07:21 AM
#35
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
Empiricism? Not as I understand it, at least~
Primarily, it says that knowledge can only be what is known via sense-experience. While this is undoubtedly true that all knowledge has its root in sense-experience, Empiricism lacks explanation for such supersensuous things as ideas, produced by the immaterial faculty known as the intellect.
Just as, Empiricism couldn't find the essential idea of being underpowered in Stormtroopers--it couldn't discover that, or even so much as guess that, since there is no guessing without ideas or intellect. Yet, we have demonstrated it through... many means, numbers in no way the least!
Mmmm! I was interpreting the discussion via everyone's in game experiences, discussing the role the storms play and how it sort of betrays their stats/vet bonuses, but perhaps I was trying to stretch that one a littttleee too far
Aye, aye. Some better understanding is hidden deeper in the game files, somewhere!
And you lot always manage to find it! xD
One of the things I love most about games is how systems can get almost bastardized, y'know what is "proper use" after all. I imagine it's neigh on impossible to predict when developing a game how it's going to pulled and tweaked with, IE truck pushing (NOT ABOUT TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION
) just that I find that... drive, to push limits, always really cool, and frankly important to the evolution of our game.
2 May 2015, 10:21 AM
#36
Posts: 1216
It's kind of like Luftwaffe Ground Forces and their Fallschirmjaegers- they're not great except for a pop from behind. Versatile but comes at a cost. Certainly not a unit that will replace Grenadiers or Panzergrenadiers, but they make great supplements if you ever need them.
2 May 2015, 10:29 AM
#37
Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1
It's kind of like Luftwaffe Ground Forces and their Fallschirmjaegers- they're not great except for a pop from behind. Versatile but comes at a cost. Certainly not a unit that will replace Grenadiers or Panzergrenadiers, but they make great supplements if you ever need them.
They would both be a lot more useful if there was less chance of getting Insta-wiped. But right now they are only good to take out a maxim or an ATG early game like you said.
2 May 2015, 11:37 AM
#38
2 
Posts: 2181
It's right guys, I got this for ya. The attribute editor comes to our rescue!
Stormtroopers have a 0.75 received accuracy modifier, Panzergrenadiers have 0.8.
Stormtroopers reinforce at 33.75 manpower, Panzergrenadiers at 42.5.
Their weapons are alike, though Panzergrenadiers have 1.2 increased accuracy while Stormtroopers have 1.15 (the 15% accuracy increase in the latter's case is certainly for the purpose of increasing lethality from the March Deployment's purposes - it is present on virtually all frontline infantry units).
Despite coh2.org's veterancy guide, the attribute editor is actually telling me that the sum of the total vet bonuses are really alike - the difference is when they get them. The Stormtroopers receive the +40% accuracy and +25% bundled grenade range at vet 2, then the -25% weapon cooldown and -29% received accuracy at vet 3. Panzergrenadiers get the same cooldown and received accuracy at vet 2, and the same accuracy and bundled grenade range at vet 3.
could you post on the vet guide what is missing then ill update it?
2 May 2015, 14:40 PM
#39
Posts: 978
You all have the commander? I still didn´t get it. Gotta love the war spoils system. 
I imagine them being a choice for skipping T2 and not getting caught with your pants down for not having PGrens/ Paks.
I imagine them being a choice for skipping T2 and not getting caught with your pants down for not having PGrens/ Paks.
2 May 2015, 14:42 PM
#40
Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1
You all have the commander? I still didn´t get it. Gotta love the war spoils system.
I imagine them being a choice for skipping T2 and not getting caught with your pants down for not having PGrens/ Paks.
you can always donate to relik
servant to the vet 5 königskübel
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
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