struggling against OKW T3 with Bolshewiks

Hey guys,

got some Problems lately with OKW-ultra-inf-spam covered by a Puma without using Shocks. Trying to Play not so meta the last weeks, sometimes it worked, because of better Micro and strategy, but mostly you get steamrolled by OKW with 3-4 volks,FlakHT/Puma/Luchs and then a Panther, just the Standard shit. Struggling because a Puma is nearly invurnerable becuase of its high range/LOS and can correctly microed kill anything that calls itself a vehicle. if investing into Zis it will be a waste of MP due the high pressure to the OKW inf. Any good advises WITHOUT commander choice?

More or less I got the same probs..!

While FlakHT may not be that much of a problem (can be dealt with AT nades and guess what... a well placed mine!). Luchs can be dealt with mines and a T70.

Still the problem is the OKW infantry + T3. Volks w/ Shreks, if build in numbers, are more that enough AT support and a Panther, usually micro'ed defensively, is a pain.

Relying on the chance that you will kill T3 truck before its set up is not reliable. I guess the only way is to keep pressing & bleeding OKW from the very very beginning of the game. It seems that if you don't stomp OKW early on he is able to turn the game to his favor easier than an OH player.

I guess you're talking about 1v1 format. I have zero experience with it, but still here is my thoughts on topic in general.

OKW players usually go Mech HQ against soviets in 1v1, because maxim spam is too good against Medic HQ and Wuhrframen counters it.

Soviets without ZIS have zero AT capabilities that can reliably deal with puma or Flak Halftrack THAT early. All those advices like "just oorah+grenade it with cons from multiple angles" usually lead to heavy MP bleed or even squad loss (if they get clumped) without actually destroying vehicle which just move back Mech truck for repairs.

Mines are too passive and unreliable (can be set off by infantry).
PTRS (doctrinal) are too slow to actually perform a kill.

I guess without commander options and investing in ZIS the best solution would be rush T-34 (or even T-70, depends on map and urgency) or SU-85.
T-34(T-70) will help you to deal with Flak HT, Luchs and infantry and SU-85 will help with vehicles only, but including Puma (try to take it down with attack ground once it pops smoke).

Going T-4 for SU-85 also helps by opening access to BM-13 which is damn good against OKW forward bases, but you need to be careful with it. Best would be to prepare positions with mines to prevent panther from rushing for it.

About high pressure of OKW infantry...
If you have noticed that opponent tends to blob, try to lure him into demolition charge. If he is not blobbing - things get harder for you, but still wiping single volksschrek squad with demo gives you advantage in resources.

Best lure is 120mm mortar (people hates to get shelled), which is also amazing agaist forward bases, but on the other side is big MP investment and vulnerable to Wurfrahmen.

EDIT:

You know, I've kinda rethinked my position.
You need -50 + 50 + 120 + 125(100) = 245(220) fuel for first SU85(T-34) ONLY IF you don't tech molotov/AT nade
while opponent need -40 + 40 + 45 = 45 for that halftrack
or -40 + 40 + 80 + 50 = 130 for Luchs
You won't be able to get those 200 fuel with uncountered Flak HT or Luchs around.

You'd better build that ZIS in any case, which means T2 is a must.
You can go T1->T2 or T2->T4 against OKW and latter is better, despite wurfrahmen.

If you go T1->T2, your M3A1 will get countered by puma and schreks very soon, although with flamers they do huge damage to OKW, often wiping a squad or two.
Snipers are good for taking out sturmpios and obers, but are weak against mass 5-man cheap volks.
Investing in both snipers and Zis will take away a lot of capping power and mobility.

T2 have it all. T2 just too good. Zis is a must.

Again, I have no experience in 1v1, but I think build order (in general) should be like this:
cons
cons
T2
maxim
maxim
(healing)
maxim
AT nade
ZiS

For sure rushing Cons against a FlakHT is dangerous but if you time it well you can catch it off guard while traversing map and destroy it.

The mines I suggested isn't guaranteed kill but if you place them smartly and bait it you can get your chances up for only 30MUN/mine.

Going T4 is a nice idea but will a SU-85 come in time to deal with a Puma?

Remember that sometimes a unit that is tricky to counter straight away (in this case puma), it leaves them weak in an unrelated way.

Trying to focus only on countering the puma is kind of falling into a trap. What is more important is the fact he didnt go for medics yet, so put most of your effort into draining his infantrys health, it will cripple his MP and win you most engagements.

With that aim in mind, only feel you need to soft counter the puma (for now). This shows him your not going to let him dictate the match, your going to hit him where it hurts.

Yes you could get ZiS, but it may also micro out of your range just as easily, and the ZiS cant do a lot else.

A couple squads of guards is more mobile and can protect more of the map, while helping to punish his weakened infantry, from range, in cover. Fight a MP attrition war, dont necessarily feel you have to get squad wipes in this scenario.


Its a similar way at looking at a fast luchs. In this case, rather than obsessing over the luchs. Realise that any panther is heavily delayed and hence his inf is his only AT. Take out or weaken enough of his shreks and something like a KV8 supported by anti inf off map strikes begins to look like uncounterable for him. Even if the luchs is still uncountered, you won by ignoring it and focusing in his weakness... Not his strength.

Damn good points, Charlie Dont Surf!

Charlie your points are spot on!

Yesterday I was playing a 2v2 as Soviet (SU/US Vs OH/OKW). The OKW player, at his peak, was able to field 2 Sturms, 4 Volks, 3 Obers. He had a Luchs up although we had both fuel points most of the time. Then they pushed us back and managed to get a KT out... we lost to VPs!

The Obers, although being quite capable unit, it come quite early. The Volks, while not being something too exceptional, when they are upgraded with the Shrek and if they come in packs they are a match for most allied armor.

Now, if you sum it up, the OKW seems able to field extraordinary infantry units while needing only a single tank(Panther or KT) to deal with armor.

As Soviets, keep in mind that OKW will have only ever one sweeper squad with less detection range than the OH counterpart to boot. Explosives are your friend, mines and especially demos don't care about received accuracy modifiers and will allow you to kill Obers/Volks cost-effectively. The same goes for any and all flame/AOE weapons. Vet OKW units are exceptionally resilient to smallarms fire, so dont play into their hands.
I also disagree with what is said above. In fact, one should focus less on attrition per se and more on setting up ambushes, chasing down and killing single OKW units whenever possible - do not let their vet snowball. Also, OKW has a seemingly high manpower income, and bleeding them in the conventional manner is difficult.
As for the lategame, 85s with mark target and IS-2s are both very potent vs OKW, in fact the latter can contain even the KT more or less fine if its backed by a ZiS. On the other hand, it is quite vulnerable to the Jagdpanzer. If you are being cheesed with ultraggressive truck placement, the 120 mm mortar comes out early and will hardcounter any such antics.

Just use the standard Soviet OP stuff. Demo's, mines and flamers/ molo crits, clowncars, T70(!) into T34-85

Should be GG almost always glhf

Just to elaborate on Charlie don't surfs points: I'm going address the flakht/luchs. the okw player are getting these often because his infantry is struggling. The counter is in tactics/strategy don't let his emphasis shift dictate how you play. Spread the line as thinly as gou can, don't try and force them off the field unless you have the means to to do so equitably and successfully ie. Maxim × ZiS t70 for spice, otherwise keep your troops alive and away from them and keep pouring it on his infantry, force him to make a mistake, don't fall for his bait essentially what those units are.