Ostheer - MG42

MG42 is the best MG in the game

USF MG is better IMO, but in terms of OSTs best non-doctrinal units, they have:

251 HT, earliest HT in the game with enough armor and HP to provide a mobile base of operations for their infantry.

PAK 40: Best AT gun in the game, combination of an impressive ROF and Pen, with a great vet1 ability to boot.

GRW: Best non-doc mortar in the game, hits the field fast and does a great job with barrage as well as autofire.

Pz4: Best Medium tank in the game (Although it has trouble vs. Jackson).

Panther: Expensive, but still a heavy armored unit that can be used in conjunction with any doctrine.

Vehicle Survival: All Ost doctrinal armor get increase armor at vet2 which gives them a massive scalability boost vs. Allies doctrinal armor. In addition, the vet 1 "blitz" ability is an inexpensive and powerful way to either get your armor out of an unfavorable situation, or to chase down an finish enemy armor. Some doctrines also give all tanks smoke, to allow for another option to escape sticky situations.

These are all Ostheers strengths, at least the way I see them. Ostheer has many weaknesses, and definitely needs tweaks, but it is in no way a helpless kitten drowning in a lava lake. If the MG42 gets tweaked with more survivability (and maybe vet 0 AP rounds), Ostheer will have the combined arms trifecta that it is based around, and will be able to combat all other factions.

Can you (if you have) post one of your replay's? i would love to see your Strategy for MG 42.

Here's a cast KilrathiSoldier and I did of one of those games.


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There isn't any way to order a unit to attack a specific other one when one is in a building.

There, is, its called right click while having unit in house selected.

The only way to keep the pace with ostheer curently (in my view) is to grenspam with as many lmg42 as you can get + 251, a pack + pzgrens with schrecks, get 1-2 PIVs then pump Tigers like hell - they are in pretty bad shape right now though.
Red all these walls of text in the thread, everybody is right in a way or another, but it's something wrong with this faction which can't be fixed just by an MG42 buff - which is necessary. I'd say in addition make teching cheaper from fuel point of view and do something with that crippled Tiger, or make units in T4 worthy of investment. Currently for late game what are your options as OST? An intangible T4 with units that you have to wonder if they really deserve to be built - Panthers are eaten alive by 85s IS2s and ISUs, pzwerfers are just Fireworks - and a Tiger call-in which, again, is eaten alive by the same soviet heavy call in mentioned before plus Jacksons. Ostheer used to own the late game and it's normal for a faction to own a moment in game that it should exploit the most. The problem with Ostheer is that it's not owning any moment in game in the current state, while all other factions are.

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most of these players are very good, and you will probably recognize them from the 2v2 leaderboards.

edit: basically my strategy revolves around the pioneer, hmg42, and halftrack. hmg42s hold down enemy infantry, pios are the majority of my actual killing power, and the halftrack allows me to stay on the field indefinitely without retreating.

i like this strat way more than gren heavy cause its a lot more forgiving if you lose a squad since you can recrew an mg42 but you cant recrew a gren squad, and cheaper to reinforce squads as well.

Thanks a bunch

Here's a cast KilrathiSoldier and I did of one of those games.


Show Spoiler

Thank you also . This is pretty much the most annoying strat i ever saw .In 3vs3 its sometimes impossible to flank and you NEED those early game vehicles like the dodge or M20 or AA halftrack. Question to MG 42 hater WHAT DO YOU WANT? Describe your dream MG42.

The only way to keep the pace with ostheer curently (in my view) is to grenspam with as many lmg42 as you can get + 251, a pack + pzgrens with schrecks, get 1-2 PIVs then pump Tigers like hell - they are in pretty bad shape right now though.
Red all these walls of text in the thread, everybody is right in a way or another, but it's something wrong with this faction which can't be fixed just by an MG42 buff - which is necessary. I'd say in addition make teching cheaper from fuel point of view and do something with that crippled Tiger, or make units in T4 worthy of investment. Currently for late game what are your options as OST? An intangible T4 with units that you have to wonder if they really deserve to be built - Panthers are eaten alive by 85s IS2s and ISUs, pzwerfers are just Fireworks - and a Tiger call-in which, again, is eaten alive by the same soviet heavy call in mentioned before plus Jacksons. Ostheer used to own the late game and it's normal for a faction to own a moment in game that it should exploit the most. The problem with Ostheer is that it's not owning any moment in game in the current state, while all other factions are.

You can replace Ostheer with USF or Sov in your wall of text. Well and USF doesn't have any Call-in solution to skip their T4.
The only Faction that hasn't any significant downside is OKW today.

Ostheer is the most balanced faction imo, the only nerf they may received is around LMG stats, but this goes for all factions in a raw if Relic decide to touch this statistic.
In comparison OKW really need a huge nerf in many areas or a complete redesign (which will probably never occur), Sov and USF need some tweaks to balance their strength and weaknesses.

I know what's going next: "It is 2v2 so it doesn't count cuz the game balanced around 1v1 and 1v1 isn't balanced #flawedLogic"

You can replace Ostheer with USF or Sov in your wall of text. Well and USF doesn't have any Call-in solution to skip their T4.
The only Faction that hasn't any significant downside is OKW today.

Ostheer is the most balanced faction imo, the only nerf they may received is around LMG stats, but this goes for all factions in a raw if Relic decide to touch this statistic.
In comparison OKW really need a huge nerf in many areas or a complete redesign (which will probably never occur), Sov and USF need some tweaks to balance their strength and weaknesses.

Right ostheer is balanced and needs a nerf to LMGs.Excellent observation.

MG42 is the best MG in the game

Nope -

Utilitywise - Maxim>all.
Quality -still much maligned M2HB.

Nope -

Utilitywise - Maxim>all.
Quality -still much maligned M2HB.

Incendiary armor says you're wrong.

And its not on the maxim.
Rock bottom is DSHK being overpriced, underpowered POS, then its USF HMG because of durability issues.
Then HMG34 and then pretty much maxim slightly below MG42.

You can replace Ostheer with USF or Sov in your wall of text. Well and USF doesn't have any Call-in solution to skip their T4.
The only Faction that hasn't any significant downside is OKW today.

Ostheer is the most balanced faction imo, the only nerf they may received is around LMG stats, but this goes for all factions in a raw if Relic decide to touch this statistic.
In comparison OKW really need a huge nerf in many areas or a complete redesign (which will probably never occur), Sov and USF need some tweaks to balance their strength and weaknesses.

No offense, but you should really play some more ostheer games and play some OKW games before you say that. OKW does not need so much nerf as you imply and Ostheer certainly needs no nerf at all.

Pios,engys,and RE's are cheap(30-40 mp is not that huge of a difference) They (Pios)have good mines,they are decent up close if not being focused down. The soviet engineer is a close third,and only because tellers are better than TM35s in the anti tank role,and S mines are very easy to lay down in bunches if you desire to do so by cancelling.

Grens have a panzer faust which is always nice,and a rifle grenade that can shoot over shotblockers from a mile away and wipe squads regularly. They also have an LMG,and build bunkers. the only thing they cant do is dominate on close range maps.

Again, show me an Mg42 thats supported that gets owned by one squad. Show me. We've already seen what happens to an unsupported MG in this game. It Dies. it should die. MGs shouldnt operate alone. Simple as that. Argue it all you want.

The mortar is cheap,it fires fast,its accurate,and it forces people to stay out of buildings. Two of them is very good fire support.

Going AA HT is a balls deep move,at least in 1v1. You're sacrificing any real AT for an attempt at crippling the ost so bad they cant come back. Guess what,that rarely happens in high skill usf ost matchups because the AA HT literally requires one pak(or hell a well placed teller) to counter. The Pak comes at the same time as AA HT,thanks to all the tears from when WFA first came out,and you can have a 251 halftrack before this.

Id love to see you drive an aa ht in back asswards trying to finish off a 251,while the nearby grens with fausts taht take half the health, and shortly arriving pak takes good care of your 60 FUEL INVESTMENT. 85 if you count nades,and evne more resources if we're talking para/bar/etc spam.

Guess what happens when you lose the AAHT too early? you lose. a P4 will be base raping you before you have enough fuel for anything to counter it,because it has no m20 mines to fear,you wouldnt know that though. You wouldnt know that going AA HT evens the tech costs considerably in osts favor if you can counter it. Too busy crying.

I told you why pgrens are fragile and you still complain. What do you want there exactly? If you use pgrens with caution,inside of buildings and in support position instead of using them like volks you'd be amazed at how good they are at their combined arms job.

I struggle with blobbers and soviet callins when im playin' ost. I told you how that could be fixed. If you insist on overbuffing ost then okay I cant stop you from thinking that,I cant change your mind,but i will be thankful that you arent balance devs.

Pios are less cost effective than both sov and american engies.And more costly to reinforce.Too much actually at 25 mp.And soviet mine is best by far,i think no one diagrees on that/Combined with ost's muni starvation and stupid s-mine signboard.

Not only can grens be massacred in close range maps,they also lose to rifles at all ranges and also have trouble against mass conspam with shocks.Helpless lategame even with vet against paras/1919.

I will ask wehr players to show you then.I'm not currently playing the game,but have seen this so many time.Smoke and rush(grens don't have dps to prevent),just pure a-move DPS of LMG blob,or suppressed nade....any of these 3 will work easy to overrun popcornsprayer even if supported.Seen it happen so many times.

Mortar is good.Sov mortar isn't bad either,neither is american pack howie.Wehr indirect fire ends at mortar.

Nope AA halftrack is a solid choice if not M20.Its 50% game winner by default against ost.It just gives u so much map control its worth fuel cost.In any case ost is hampered by tech ,it will have no field presence at all if trying to rush p4.Pak can keep it at bay with skillful positioning,not kill it anymore after nerf if us player has micro.Then he goes to other part of map and terrorizes.Total map control gone.Also hope that pak isn't overrun by rifle blob which also outnumbers you due to free units and teching.Talking about high level matchups ,lol we saw the reality of that.Not only ost had miserable win percentage of all.No one picked ostheer first because they knew opponent would naturally pick usf and it would be autoloss.They won't admit in open,but in tourney truth comes out about ground realities.Ur the one crying to keep things as they are and easywin for usf,i only want balanced usf vs ost matchup.

And ur excuse was cheap and lame.So 340 mp and 120 muni DESERVES to be 1 shotted?And most importantly what abt its AI?U said it urself its only good for conscripts and unupgraded rifles..thats fair.Lol.It deserves buff to give ost chance against enemy elite infantry.

How will u fix blob?Is there slightest indication relic will make blob change?
I never insist on overbuffing ost - changes to tech costs,pzgren survivability,mg42 formation and small suppression,pzwerfer and lefh damage,222 survivability with cost,sniper survivability.All the above are absolutely valid requests and won't 'overbuff' ost at all.

Incendiary armor says you're wrong.

And its not on the maxim.
Rock bottom is DSHK being overpriced, underpowered POS, then its USF HMG because of durability issues.
Then HMG34 and then pretty much maxim slightly below MG42.

RouNd cahnge takes long.Needs vet.Meaning changing within blob fight is death sentence,not useful from start like maxim at all.Maxim remains far more utility than mg42,single handedly wins soviet games vs OKW in low game modes.You can see whats better by usage of the weapon.

Maxim first by far.M2HB is still qualitywise better than popcornsprayer.Worst is DHSK-this i agree on.Mg34 is close.

Maxim doesn't feel like something I can defend with unless it's in a building. It's arc is too narrow otherwise, it's not something you can setup and hold territory with. This is especially problematic as Sov is the only faction without field defences (Bunkers, FPs, etc).


Offensively I agree the Maxim is the best though.


For defensive purposes though the MG34/42 is superior, as they have wider arc and can cover each other.

You can cover the island on Steppes with two or three 34/42, there's no way you can do that with any other MG, maybe M2s, but certainly not Maxims.

57mm is the best AT gun in the game vs Mediums, great cone/RoF and take aim is arguably better than TWP which decides to bug and not even work half the time

The only medium people really use against USF is the Panther; because Jackson slays Panzer IV if you don't have AT gun support, which isn't exactly a medium tank in this game thanks to lack of side armor.

Ironically however, I agree in that 57mm is the best AT gun in the game vs mediums with its massive range and self spotting; it's just that that happens when Axis captures it and uses it against USF.

TWP is still godly.

No offense, but you should really play some more ostheer games and play some OKW games before you say that. OKW does not need so much nerf as you imply and Ostheer certainly needs no nerf at all.

Don't say Ostheer need a nerf, I say LMG power design can be subject to be tone down and it would impact Ostheer.
OKW need to be redesign or nerfed. I'm not saying that badly but, being honest this faction is so strong today that any change in his design would be a nerf in any ways.
Simply intensifying the micro required to manage your volks/obers will be a nerf itself.

Right ostheer is balanced and needs a nerf to LMGs.Excellent observation.

get some glasses dude, he said lmgs in general are "broken"

get some glasses dude, he said lmgs in general are "broken"

''Ostheer is the most balanced faction imo''.If he didn't mean 'balanced' he could have just said 'best designed'.Balanced means its fine and needs no changes which is not the case.So perhaps his choice of words was off,or perhaps he really think ost is fine.I can't say for sure.

Pios are less cost effective than both sov and american engies.And more costly to reinforce.Too much actually at 25 mp.And soviet mine is best by far,i think no one diagrees on that/Combined with ost's muni starvation and stupid s-mine signboard.
You excuse away every thing I explain to you...pios Engineers who cares they all do the same thing. And s mines are for area denial and flank protection

Not only can grens be massacred in close range maps,they also lose to rifles at all ranges and also have trouble against mass conspam with shocks.Helpless lategame even with vet against paras/1919.
they don't lose to rifles that horribly until double bars come out.If the rifles try to close in, they lose, if they stay at long range, they lose,at mid range rifles take decent casualties and usually cannot afford to fight another battle. A close range rifles do stomp grens. Get an MG42 to prevent that, or veto city maps like every normal ostheer player would.


****tears****

And ur excuse was cheap and lame.So 340 mp and 120 muni DESERVES to be 1 shotted?And most importantly what abt its AI?U said it urself its only good for conscripts and unupgraded rifles..thats fair.Lol.It deserves buff to give ost chance against enemy elite infantry.

I told you why pgrens are fragile. You ignore that and say it's cheap and lame that you can't blob a 240 ALPHA DAMAGE Infantry squad, because when they USED to not be so fragile they were OP. I told you to use them in a supportive role, not like folks. If pgrens could just ignore the combined arms rule of Ost, they'd be OP. As proven by earlier versions of coh2. That's why ost doesn't have good elite infantry, it's not some huge oversight. It's their design,

How will u fix blob?Is there slightest indication relic will make blob change?
I never insist on overbuffing ost - changes to tech costs,pzgren survivability,mg42 formation and small suppression,pzwerfer and lefh damage,222 survivability with cost,sniper survivability.All the above are absolutely valid requests and won't 'overbuff' ost at all.
I
I told you what units are good and useful which was about half of them,, including that amazing tier 1 from ost. I told you why A certain unit or tier was underperforming, and it was like you didn't read it.

search a fix for blobs thread, many include things like reducing nade range when suppressed, debuff on grouped units, more received accuracy in general towards mobbed infantry,MG buffs have been suggested and I told you many times in this thread why that wouldn't work..