Ostheer - MG42

Not when you have to build Soviet tier 3 to get it.

...and it's basically only technically AA in practice.

Meant american one,sry if u misunderstood.

Odtheer has elite infantry in storm troopers and vetted pgrens. They can't have the best everything.. Elite inf isn't Wehrmacht strength. its combined arms.

I'll ask u again,WHAT DO OST HAVE THE BEST OF?
katitof u can sub in for him and answer instead,since u have taken it upon urself to manage my tears.

Don't make redundant comments if u don't know what ur talking abt.

Meant american one,sry if u misunderstood.

Oh well, then that's pretty different since the Wehr's can reinforce unlike that one.

But its flamethrower upgrade is definitely the most fucking garbage upgrade in the game.

You asked for issues that ost suffers that others don't.I gae u those issues.now trying to twist ur own words.Hopeless.Go scroll back and read ur own post.U screamed in caps ..and now backing out?

251 can't do shit vs enemy light vehicle or inf timely,which is what point i raised.In light vehicle arena ost totally outgunned.

Even vetted pzgrens are easy wiped and still lose to enemy para/shocks.Stromtroopers..lol.Ost can't have the best of everything..riddle me genius..WHAT DO WE HAVE THE BEST OF?
Good lategame as in 3rd best.
Not biased,justified.Go check tourney stats urself.I don't ask for alied nerfs,just deserved ost fixes.

Now answer the issues like u said..or run away.

Wait till I can get to a computer and really roast you, the 251 is a good light vehicle for its purpose. I said the 222 needed love
i already said ost elite inf is lacking and it is on purpose.

Ost is lucky to have a late game. Usf is the one that doesn't.

Oh well, then that's pretty different since the Wehr's can reinforce unlike that one.

But its flamethrower upgrade is definitely the most fucking garbage upgrade in the game.

It's amazing for its critting potential, better squad wiper than M3 with Penals inside. You just shouldn't use it on its own/as your main anti-infantry. Hound low health squads to finish them off.

I'll ask u again,WHAT DO OST HAVE THE BEST OF?
katitof u can sub in for him and answer instead,since u have taken it upon urself to manage my tears.

Best non doctrinal mortar in the game, best anti tank gun in the game, best all round heavy tank in the game (tiger I), very good well scaling infantry, and arguably the best MG in the game.


No matter what you will say, the mg-42 is way better than the 0.50 cal which is squishy as hell, the maxim which gets oneshotted by riflegrenades all the time, the mg-34 considering OKW MP bleed is probaly better than the mg-42, but statwise the mg-42 is superior.


Of course that's ignoring the obvious things like the best anti infantry tank in the game for its cost (STUG E), the best anti tank strafe and of course the CAS support commander.

Oh well, then that's pretty different since the Wehr's can reinforce unlike that one.

But its flamethrower upgrade is definitely the most fucking garbage upgrade in the game.

Yes i'm wandering around reinforcing my units while american light vehicle is slaughtering my forces,as i desperately try to get pak into position.One shot he backs away..moves and begins his reign of terror on some other part of the field.Familiar sight..no?Oh well,we have reinforce..oh wait..american gets that straight away...oh and not just reinforce...but heal too.I guess i can buidl a bunker and spend some munis on it..i have lots of munitions right?My gren ubermensch don't need lmgs against rifles..feh.

Wait till I can get to a computer and really roast you, the 251 is a good light vehicle for its purpose. I said the 222 needed love
i already said ost elite inf is lacking and it is on purpose.

Ost is lucky to have a late game. Usf is the one that doesn't.

So now ur agreeing to basically all i said one by one...suddenly so many ost units need buff.I'm so glad we could agree on something finally.
Now answer ur statement..what does ost have best of?Ur statement .

I'll ask u again,WHAT DO OST HAVE THE BEST OF?
katitof u can sub in for him and answer instead,since u have taken it upon urself to manage my tears.

Don't make redundant comments if u don't know what ur talking abt.

-Air support, multiple varied AI AT and anti arty strikes, pick whatever you like, ost air support have it.
-Supply boosting abilities.
-Best on field reinforcement and transport platform, arrives early, is affordable, prevents you from getting pushed off.
-Mortar precision strike on stock infantry.
-Doesn't rely on side upgrades, every single non support unit can be upgraded further for enhancing current or changing its role without side menpower and fuel costs and no need to pick specific doctrine, doctrinal choice being option, not mandatory.
-Best tiering design allowing for linear, flexible tiering with all units needed always being at your disposal, only transition to T4 is too expensive.
-Tigers rips apart both armor and infantry. Yes, it looses to IS-2, that is ONE allied unit it needs to actually fear, cry me a river here and be happy you don't face panzershrecks, elephants, jagdtigers and king tigers.

Here is a bucket.

-Air support. Doctrinal
-Supply boosting abilities. Doctrinal
-Best on field reinforcement and transport platform, arrives early, is affordable, prevents you from getting pushed off.
-Mortar precision strike on stock infantry.
-Doesn't rely on side upgrades, every single non support unit can be upgraded further for enhancing current or changing its role without side menpower and fuel costs and no need to pick specific doctrine, doctrinal choice being option, not mandatory.
-Best tiering design allowing for linear, flexible tiering with all units needed always being at your disposal, only transition to T4 is too expensive.
-Tigers rips apart both armor and infantry. Yes, it looses to IS-2, that is ONE allied unit it needs to actually fear, cry me a river here and be happy you don't face panzershrecks, elephants, jagdtigers and king tigers. Doctrinal

It could be more constructive discussing the faction in its core design without doctrinal units and abilities. Otherwise the discussion of this topic already derailed.

So now ur agreeing to basically all i said one by one...suddenly so many ost units need buff.I'm so glad we could agree on something finally.
Now answer ur statement..what does ost have best of?Ur statement .

Best compare to who USF or Sov?

Whermacht:

1) Sniper mortar
2) Double Shreks
3) Ostwind (much better than HT in my opinion)
4) Panther
6) Command Tank (Buffs every single unit within vicinity)
7) Pak (No giant gun emplacement for Allies)
8) G43s on mainline infantry
9) Tiger (no heavy for USF)
10) Elephant (No heavy for USF)

This is excluding tech cost, you asked about what Wher has that it is really good.

AND please, spare me the Axis back foot losing game drama.

It could be more constructive dicussing the faction in its core design without doctrinal units and abilities. Otherwise the discussion of this topic already derailed.

(pssst, there are doctrines in game, ost is free to pick one just like 3 other armies can)

And if you want to compare without doctrines, then Best of the best is OKW, 2nd place without contest is ost, then are soviets and then, crying alone in the corner, USF with nothing to contest KT, panthers, obers and LMG grens with support of anything.

It could be more constructive dicussing the faction in its core design without doctrinal units and abilities. Otherwise the discussion of this topic already derailed.

Then Soviets are shit compare to every other army than huh?

I'll ask u again,WHAT DO OST HAVE THE BEST OF?

Best scaling infantry for price. (240mp + 60 ammo gets you more than allied units for the same price; ergo the upkeep of 7)
Best AT-gun.
Best non-doctrinal mortar.
Most cost-effective infantry AT unit. (no other faction can get so much AT for 9 supply, 320mp and 120 munitions)
Best infantry vehicle snare.
Best doctrine for tech skipping.
Best air strike. (JU87 tank buster is like a P47 that also suppresses infantry, does more damage to infantry than the IL-2, and wipes support weapons by wrecking the gun)
Best tank survival ability. (Lolblitz and smoke)
Best grenade. (vet 2 rifle grenades have insane reach)
Most affordable combined arms tech-set up that includes grenades, infantry weapon upgrades, and vehicle snare ability.

Those are just the things on top of my head.

Then Soviets are shit compare to every other army than huh?

Point for you. Yeah, Shocks/Guards "Doctrinal".

Best non doctrinal mortar in the game, best anti tank gun in the game, best all round heavy tank in the game (tiger I), very good well scaling infantry, and arguably the best MG in the game.


No matter what you will say, the mg-42 is way better than the 0.50 cal which is squishy as hell, the maxim which gets oneshotted by riflegrenades all the time, the mg-34 considering OKW MP bleed is probaly better than the mg-42, but statwise the mg-42 is superior.


Of course that's ignoring the obvious things like the best anti infantry tank in the game for its cost (STUG E), the best anti tank strafe and of course the CAS support commander.

Now now,don't try to cherrypick my friend..ur trying to narrow to single unit types which some factions don't even have..i'm talking abt roles.U have to compare with units of equivalent roles.
Indirect fire?Light vehicle?Elite inf?Basic inf?hevay armor?tank destroyer etc etcBecause having best non-doctrinal-another cherrypick here is not the whole story is it.

Tiger I is not best heavy tank - first KT,second IS-2 get facts straight.Tiger third.
Ost mortar is good .In indirect fire 120 mm best but doctrinal,pack howie excellent.Does ost have best indirect fire options.Nope worst as a faction.Its option starts and ends with mortars with shit and inaccesible arty.Soviet gets best,OKW second,USF third,ost last.

Pak is best AT gun in the game,non doctrinal best is pak43.Only point i agree.

Maxim is far more utilitarian than mg42.U can see the truth from usage.Players know the rtruth themsleves and its reflected in actual games.M2HB is better than mg42,though not a particualrly awesome unit itself.

Best anti inf tank -sherman without a doubt.Stug-e,scott both are excellent.Except usf gets those options stock.

Best anti tank strafe-p-47 skillplane says hi.

Basic infantry - USF/OKW >OST>SOVIET
Elite infantry - OKW>USF>SOVIET>OST
Indirect fire - SOVIET>OKW>USF>OST
AT guns - OST>SOVIET>USF>OKW
Mines - SOVIET>OKW>OST>USF
Infantry AT - OKW>OST>USF>SOVIET
Tank destroyer - USF>SOVIET=OKW>OST
Lategame armor - OKW>SOVIET>OST>USF
Light Vehicle - USF>SOVIET>OKW>OST

Squad survivability ofcourse ost last.
Tech costs - ost last
I could go on.

Except AT gun OST has NOTHING that is BEST OF ALL.So cookie's statement ost can't have best of evrything is as hilarious as its foolish.Now he can explain that statement,and 'roast' the ost issues compared to other factions that i pointed out anytime.

Best compare to who USF or Sov?

Whermacht:

1) Sniper mortar
2) Double Shreks
3) Ostwind (much better than HT in my opinion)
4) Panther
6) Command Tank (Buffs every single unit within vicinity)
7) Pak (No giant gun emplacement for Allies)
8) G43s on mainline infantry
9) Tiger (no heavy for USF)
10) Elephant (No heavy for USF)

This is excluding tech cost, you asked about what Wher has that it is really good.

AND please, spare me the Axis back foot losing game drama.

Comapred to all 4 factions.Ost earlygame is weakest and lategame third strongest(after OKW and soviet),and i'll take up anyone on that.

INTERESTING. So you can spam 400 MP paras with a 120 muni upgrade, on a faction that munches on muni and manpower. That,is BS. And if you do that you sacrifice in a lot of other places. You can spam this and blob it right at a supported mg42 and do some serious damage if you snipe the gunner and catch the Ost player off guard. am not denying that. It's not the mg42, its blob firepower against the 42

You simply cannot deny that IF your opponent decides not to blob, the mg42 will then do its job. Blobs prevent it from doing its job. Not the stats of the mg.

I'm agreeing with him that blobs are lame ALL ACROSS THE BOARD. I've said that 150 times. It's equally annoying to deal with a giant horde of folks and UBERS, which is CHEAPER and more versatile than a USF BLOB, which is pure AI.

It's also annoying to deal with mg spam blocking every flank attempt and assault you try, as we've learned,

A solution is not making the mg42 OP against players that don't blob. which is what buffing the 42 directly will definitely do.

Most people (me included) feel that the current MG42's only lacking is from it's very low survivability, and the ease at which it's able to get gunner sniped.

And yes, you can spam Para's just like you can spam Obers, the only difference is that Obers don't pay for the LMG (which is stupid and should be changed). Para's are 6 men, have high dps, and can easily shut down an Ostheer player do to Ostheers relative infantry fragility.

Ostheer needs more love than just the MG42 not dying to a stiff breeze.

Odtheer has elite infantry in storm troopers and vetted pgrens. They can't have the best everything.. Elite inf isn't Wehrmacht strength. its combined arms.

Stormtroopers are not elite infantry, they are recon and utility infantry. Right now encirclement is widely regarded as one of the worst Ost docs due to the fact Stormtroopers are overpriced as all hell and incredibly fragile.

To say nothing of how expensive Pgrens + shreks relative to how insanely easy they can be squad wiped.

Basic infantry is elite infantry. Portable precision strike mortar, default LMG upgrade, multiple ways of expanding their utility and weaponry via doctrines.

The Ostheer mortar is less accurate than the soviet one, and it doesn't come with precision strike.

Believe it or not, axis are NOT supposed to have every single unit superior to allied counterpart.

Both Axis factions have units that are worse than their allied counterparts, the only unit category which Axis dominates is Heavy's, but that's because they have more of them.

Tigers and stukas one shot shocks, guards and paras as well. And these aren't exactly cheap units.

If you are getting your shocks, guards, and para's hit by the stuka you are deafblind.

Ost is lucky to have a late game. Usf is the one that doesn't.

USF has late game, it just requires more micro. Well microed Jacksons can rape any armor on the field short of a Jadgtiger/Elefant.

Best non doctrinal mortar in the game, best anti tank gun in the game, best all round heavy tank in the game (tiger I), very good well scaling infantry, and arguably the best MG in the game.

The Ost and Soviet mortars both have their place, the Soviet one is more accurate and has longer range, the Ost one fires faster. They do the same damage. The Pak40 only does 10 more pen than the ZiS while it can't barrage, they are pretty much equal in practical worth. The IS2 beats out the Tiger easily with 75 more frontal armor and far more pen/AoE.

No matter what you will say, the mg-42 is way better than the 0.50 cal which is squishy as hell, the maxim which gets oneshotted by riflegrenades all the time, the mg-34 considering OKW MP bleed is probaly better than the mg-42, but statwise the mg-42 is superior.

The MG42 and the .50 cal have the exact same survivability, both are easy to kill thanks to only having 4 men + RNG gunner deaths. The maxim is far harder to kill thanks to having 6 men, and better gun reposition and traverse.

The MG-34 is literally the exact same as the MG42 stat wise but only does less suppression, so it's worth as an HMG is even less so which is why it's so cheap.

Of course that's ignoring the obvious things like the best anti infantry tank in the game for its cost (STUG E), the best anti tank strafe and of course the CAS support commander.

It's only 5 less fuel than a Scott with far less survivability thanks to no turret + no armor + no shooting over obstacles.

-Air support, multiple varied AI AT and anti arty strikes, pick whatever you like, ost air support have it.

What artillery does Axis have that allies need to take out? There are plenty of options to take out Ost mortars.

-Supply boosting abilities.

This is one Ostheer doctrine, the rest involve paying fuel for munitions which means no tanks for you! It's a trade off that you pay for.

-Mortar precision strike on stock infantry.

Nope, only soviets have precision strikes on their artillery.

-Doesn't rely on side upgrades, every single non support unit can be upgraded further for enhancing current or changing its role without side menpower and fuel costs and no need to pick specific doctrine, doctrinal choice being option, not mandatory.

What is the Ostheer teching system? There are very few researchable upgrades in the game, it's one of it's biggest flaws. USF has them because rifles are all they have, with cons it's a matter of the fact having AT nades right at the start of the game would be rather OP.

-Best tiering design allowing for linear, flexible tiering with all units needed always being at your disposal, only transition to T4 is too expensive.

Ostheer teching is the worse in the game because it gives you units you don't want. I would rather pay less and get units I want, than pay more and get units I don't. Linear teching means your forced to pay for shit you don't want. And the transition to all the tiers costs a buttload of MP as 200 a battle phase, Ostheer have to pay over 1320 MP to fully tech!

-Tigers rips apart both armor and infantry. Yes, it looses to IS-2, that is ONE allied unit it needs to actually fear, cry me a river here and be happy you don't face panzershrecks, elephants, jagdtigers and king tigers.

The Tiger can easily get raped by Jacksons, 240 damage a shot means only 2 shots need to get through to reduce it to almost half health. The Tiger is by no means an insane unbeatable heavy tank unless your Soviets with Shock Rifle, mark target makes it even more of a joke.

If you want to get rid of tanks as Ost get an Elefant, if you want to get rid of infantry; get a Tiger and pray you don't get snared.

The Elefant and JT also are a extremely heavy investment, which means your opponent won't be able to deal with your infantry as much. The KT is also able to be beat with some basic thinking, mark target, P47's ect. If you get lucky and snare it then it's 100% dead.

Yes i'm wandering around reinforcing my units while american light vehicle is slaughtering my forces,as i desperately try to get pak into position.One shot he backs away..moves and begins his reign of terror on some other part of the field.Familiar sight..no?Oh well,we have reinforce..oh wait..american gets that straight away...oh and not just reinforce...but heal too.I guess i can buidl a bunker and spend some munis on it..i have lots of munitions right?My gren ubermensch don't need lmgs against rifles..feh.

That's a comparison which ignores much. Wehr's HT can reinforce just behind the front and in enemy territory and may hope to actually survive enemy contact, Ambulance can only reinforce in controlled territory and putting it anywhere near the front is like asking to lose 250 MP and 10 fuel because the thing's made of glass and moves like a theoretical vehicular snail.

Of course, a Major as a retreat point by an Ambulance is definitely superior to just a halftrack and it's super dumb, but there must be some advantage to a combo that costs like triple pop and is a combo that is certainly not available right away.

Stormtroopers are not elite infantry, they are recon and utility infantry. Right now encirclement is widely regarded as one of the worst Ost docs due to the fact Stormtroopers are overpriced as all hell and incredibly fragile.

No they ain't, they have the exact same reinforcement cost as Grens and I'm pretty sure they have a better received accuracy modifier.

My apologies for the double post.