It's 1.0 faster, that's it. And the accuracy stats are literally the same.
You talking about ToW stats again?
Ostheer: What is to be done?
28 Feb 2015, 00:58 AM
#301
Posts: 471
You talking about ToW stats again?
28 Feb 2015, 01:01 AM
#302
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
You talking about ToW stats again?
f34 76mm T-34 Gun t34_76mm_mp.xml:
Accuracy
Accuracy far:
0.025
Accuracy near:
0.05
Kwk40 75mm Tank Gun (Panzer IV) panzer_4_75mm_mp.xml
Accuracy
Accuracy far:
0.025
Accuracy near:
0.05
28 Feb 2015, 01:10 AM
#303
28 Feb 2015, 01:16 AM
#304
Posts: 471
Check the scatter on the weapons, not accuracy when taking infantry into account.
P4 has a less scatter.
You might need to explain scatter to him first
28 Feb 2015, 01:53 AM
#305
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
You might need to explain scatter to him first
You asked me about comparing each of the units accuracy, and I posted the accuracy stats. No need to be smug.
Check the scatter on the weapons, not accuracy when taking infantry into account.
P4 has a less scatter.
It only has .5 less.
It's almost like these units are similar.....could it be they are in the same tier AND are one is slightly better because it costs more?
28 Feb 2015, 02:27 AM
#306
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
@Alex i post all the list, cause it's faster to copy paste an old post.
Accuracy doesn't matter on vehicles, since they basically hit using scatter values (desviation of the shot), AoE, and damage drop off.
Note: theres also a small difference in Area of effect distance near.
"PIV main gun is better than T34 main gun against infantry (and tanks too), PIV hull MG is better, PIV coaxial is better, and PIV has a pintle that has higher DPS than the T34 pintle+coaxial combined as well"
When you combine ALL the factors you end up with a better AI tank, which is actually a real threat to infantry.
-Rof
-Number of Mgs
-DPS of MGs
-Scatter
-Area of effect distance
This without taking into account +45% of deflecting snares or inexistence or inneficience of allied infantry AT.
Accuracy doesn't matter on vehicles, since they basically hit using scatter values (desviation of the shot), AoE, and damage drop off.
Note: theres also a small difference in Area of effect distance near.
"PIV main gun is better than T34 main gun against infantry (and tanks too), PIV hull MG is better, PIV coaxial is better, and PIV has a pintle that has higher DPS than the T34 pintle+coaxial combined as well"
When you combine ALL the factors you end up with a better AI tank, which is actually a real threat to infantry.
Every stat I can find only points to the t-34/76 being slightly worse than the PIV in anti infantry, and that's just because the T34 has a worse ROF.
-Rof
-Number of Mgs
-DPS of MGs
-Scatter
-Area of effect distance
This without taking into account +45% of deflecting snares or inexistence or inneficience of allied infantry AT.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
28 Feb 2015, 02:33 AM
#307
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
@Alex i post all the list, cause it's faster to copy paste an old post.
Accuracy doesn't matter on vehicles, since they basically hit using scatter values (desviation of the shot), AoE, and damage drop off.
Note: theres also a small difference in Area of effect distance near.
"PIV main gun is better than T34 main gun against infantry (and tanks too), PIV hull MG is better, PIV coaxial is better, and PIV has a pintle that has higher DPS than the T34 pintle+coaxial combined as well"
When you combine ALL the factors you end up with a better AI tank, which is actually a real threat to infantry.
-Rof
-Number of Mgs
-DPS of MGs
-Scatter
-Area of effect distance
This without taking into account +45% of deflecting snares or inexistence or inneficience of allied infantry AT.
Iv already said I know the PIV is a better tank, but it doesn't mean the T34/76 is garbage or horrible for AI purposes. This makes sense, as the PIV costs more.
28 Feb 2015, 02:57 AM
#308
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
While i don't find annoying the intention of your post, it grinds my gears when you state things without knowing or being sure of, so this is why you see me correcting you.
But not due to the correct facts, which i just corrected. Check the post you made above.
"It's good at killing infantry because it has a good ROF"
"The 76 has a worse ROF, but as far as killing infantry goes both guns are the same."
"I didn't take into account the hull MG's because getting them to hit what you want to accurately is a pain in the dick."
The FIRST T34-76 is fine as a "tempo/shock" unit against 4 models entities or units without AT capabilities or snares. The unit on itself is lackluster. Not bad, but inneficient for it's role.
Iv already said I know the PIV is a better tank
But not due to the correct facts, which i just corrected. Check the post you made above.
"It's good at killing infantry because it has a good ROF"
"The 76 has a worse ROF, but as far as killing infantry goes both guns are the same."
"I didn't take into account the hull MG's because getting them to hit what you want to accurately is a pain in the dick."
The FIRST T34-76 is fine as a "tempo/shock" unit against 4 models entities or units without AT capabilities or snares. The unit on itself is lackluster. Not bad, but inneficient for it's role.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
28 Feb 2015, 07:38 AM
#309
Posts: 1705
Oh please. I have taken down many tigers with t-34/76s and zis-3. And i have taken down many IS-2s with just PIVS. Learn to micro, and use teller mines. They do help.
Not to mention the PIV is heaps better againts infantry than the t-34/76, you should be able to bleed him quite a bit by killing his infantry.
You could have taken out the is-2 with pak alone if u had enough and engaged promptly.P4 hardly does any dmg to it,beacuse it can't penetrate is2 at all.P4 costs way more than t-34/76 for its infantry performance.I use p4 solely vs light vehicle,t-34/76 rush and mobile infantry bleeding platform/cache raider.Useless for anything else.
As for tellers i double pack them together lategame when i have muni.If i'm using muni conversion even more so.
Btw ur opponent must have been pretty shit to lose is-2s to paks and p4s unless he hit a mine.
28 Feb 2015, 08:27 AM
#310
Posts: 1702
You could have taken out the is-2 with pak alone if u had enough and engaged promptly.P4 hardly does any dmg to it,beacuse it can't penetrate is2 at all.P4 costs way more than t-34/76 for its infantry performance.I use p4 solely vs light vehicle,t-34/76 rush and mobile infantry bleeding platform/cache raider.Useless for anything else.
As for tellers i double pack them together lategame when i have muni.If i'm using muni conversion even more so.
Btw ur opponent must have been pretty shit to lose is-2s to paks and p4s unless he hit a mine.
PIVs are much more efficent againts infantry than t-34/76s. If your opponent is stalling for call ins, you should be able to bleed his MP quite bad before he gets it.
28 Feb 2015, 09:55 AM
#311
Posts: 1225
PIVs are much more efficent againts infantry than t-34/76s. If your opponent is stalling for call ins, you should be able to bleed his MP quite bad before he gets it.
Ye, but then you cannot afford your own, much more survivable and cost-efficient call-ins, and lose the game come 10/11cps... The regular 7-8 cp PIV just does not have sufficient impact to justify its cost. Again, you show me one OH player who successfully goes for T3 in a competitive game against a meta strat, and I'll show you nine who fall on their faces in the process.
The 34/76 has a structurally similar problem, but given the massive map/resource advantage that usually results from heavy conscript play is much better suited to secure the advantage to mid-late game and bridge the time till the call-ins come into play than the PIV is who cannot build on these foundations.
28 Feb 2015, 10:46 AM
#312
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
It's 1.0 faster, that's it. And the accuracy stats are literally the same.
Since stupid and you seem to be very close friends:
Let me do advanced, university level math for you, because you might overheat in the process:
6.5-6.3=0.2
0.2=/=1
Reading stats, not for everyone, don't try this at home without parents over-watching you kids!
Oh, and accuracy is always the same, its the scatter, rate of fire and AoE profile that matters against infantry and P4 have that superior.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Feb 2015, 10:57 AM
#313
Posts: 1705
PIVs are much more efficent againts infantry than t-34/76s. If your opponent is stalling for call ins, you should be able to bleed his MP quite bad before he gets it.
And u have to pay much more than t-76s as well in both fuel and unit and teching manpower.
Quite bad is exaggeration,iot can bleed fairly well if sov infantry overextends but its not a squad wiper by any degree.And con nades,mines and zis are well capable of taking it out easily.
28 Feb 2015, 11:08 AM
#314
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Since stupid and you seem to be very close friends:
Let me do advanced, university level math for you, because you might overheat in the process:
6.5-6.3=0.2
0.2=/=1
Reading stats, not for everyone, don't try this at home without parents over-watching you kids!
Oh, and accuracy is always the same, its the scatter, rate of fire and AoE profile that matters against infantry and P4 have that superior.
I think he has in mind faster rate of fire, not speed
28 Feb 2015, 11:20 AM
#315
Posts: 1130
No skilled Ostheer player builds all 4 tech buildings. In 1 v 1 or even in large games, a skilled player would either want a P4 + Doctrine support or Panther + Doctrine support. If 4 v 4 go on past 40 minutes mark and Ostheer/Sov sitting on fuel than both players would build T3/T4 in addition.
No they dont. its call in meta. get to tiger. get with the program.
horrida flamma bella
28 Feb 2015, 11:25 AM
#316
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
No they dont. its call in meta. get to tiger. get with the program.
But in 4v4 meta is a way more flexible than in 1v1/2v2.
In 2v2, not to mention 1v1, you cant go for Panther and Howitzer or something like that.
In 4v4 you can do whatever you want to try without loosing the game.
Panther + doctrine support (without Tiger) is a great way to play efficiently in 4v4.
28 Feb 2015, 11:48 AM
#317
Posts: 1130
But in 4v4 meta is a way more flexible than in 1v1/2v2.
In 2v2, not to mention 1v1, you cant go for Panther and Howitzer or something like that.
In 4v4 you can do whatever you want to try without loosing the game.
Panther + doctrine support (without Tiger) is a great way to play efficiently in 4v4.
Thats because of economics. even the larger 4vs 4 maps have around the same amount of points. yet each side has 1k mp income so making a few fuel point is not a bad idea . also callins have less impact their.
horrida flamma bella
28 Feb 2015, 13:55 PM
#318
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I think he has in mind faster rate of fire, not speed
Yea, after reading it again I suppose you might be right
thats still meaningful difference thou.
And I was so proud of that post
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Feb 2015, 14:15 PM
#319
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
And I was so proud of that post
No worries, keep fighting!
28 Feb 2015, 14:47 PM
#320
Posts: 1484
No they dont. its call in meta. get to tiger. get with the program.
I think the Meta is mechanized assault into a Tiger, but I meant in more broad terms. Yes it can be applied to 2 v 2 + as well.
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