Login

russian armor

Ostheer: What is to be done?

PAGES (19)down
27 Feb 2015, 19:55 PM
#281
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



It's a better crusher than the PIV because it has higher speed, acceleration and basic turn speed.

Because 0.2 speed and acceleration makes a huge difference(hint: it doesn't).
And turn speed is exactly the same for both.
27 Feb 2015, 19:56 PM
#282
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

> Not getting tanks death sentence for OKW
> Vet 5 Shrekblobs
> Obers killing everything else

Remind me why people take you seriously again? Or do they?


Mmmm yes Shreks and Obers are everything proof, vehicles can't run them over, explosives don't affect them, they don't take flame damage, they are immune to small arms fire...

Oh wait all those things can happen to them. Stalling for KT is technically possible, but fuck If I'm going to ever intentionally gimp myself by doing it, I have good micro but not THAT good micro.

Nope.


Yeah, you don't take me seriously which is why 80% of your posts in the last week are responses to my posts lmao.
27 Feb 2015, 19:57 PM
#283
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 19:55 PMKatitof

Because 0.2 makes a huge difference.
And turn speed is exactly the same for both.


Turning while moving, crushing ain't gunna work if your just spinning in place.

Always crush in an ark, tight turns at high speed.
27 Feb 2015, 20:27 PM
#284
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

People talking about pz as if its hot stuff vs soviet.Lol.
The only thing it actually beats is t-34/76 and even thats not certain despite substantial price difference and mp teching disparity.

P4 IS USELESS vs is-2,completely useless..a piece of junk metal.A single shot won't penetrate.Also helpless vs t-34/85...basically no chance vs soviet lategame armor.So t-34/76 isn't the only one that scales badly.

Also soviet fanboys plz explain how pz 4 with teching costs 350 mp and 125 fuel.But t-34/85 no teching at 360 mp and 130 fuel each.Total bullshit,because it beats pz 4 effortlessly.Pz 4 is just vet fodder for allied medium call-ins - e8s and t-34/85s,jacksons,and soviet heavies.
27 Feb 2015, 20:42 PM
#285
avatar of FaustCostBulletin

Posts: 521

Another good reason for it to replace 76 in T3. So when can I expect your supporting posts at my thread about making that change?
27 Feb 2015, 20:43 PM
#286
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

People talking about pz as if its hot stuff vs soviet.Lol.
The only thing it actually beats is t-34/76 and even thats not certain despite substantial price difference and mp teching disparity.

P4 IS USELESS vs is-2,completely useless..a piece of junk metal.A single shot won't penetrate.Also helpless vs t-34/85...basically no chance vs soviet lategame armor.So t-34/76 isn't the only one that scales badly.

Also soviet fanboys plz explain how pz 4 with teching costs 350 mp and 125 fuel.But t-34/85 no teching at 360 mp and 130 fuel each.Total bullshit,because it beats pz 4 effortlessly.Pz 4 is just vet fodder for allied medium call-ins - e8s and t-34/85s,jacksons,and soviet heavies.




Oh please. I have taken down many tigers with t-34/76s and zis-3. And i have taken down many IS-2s with just PIVS. Learn to micro, and use teller mines. They do help.


Not to mention the PIV is heaps better againts infantry than the t-34/76, you should be able to bleed him quite a bit by killing his infantry.
Neo
27 Feb 2015, 21:23 PM
#287
avatar of Neo

Posts: 471



Turning while moving, crushing ain't gunna work if your just spinning in place.

Always crush in an ark, tight turns at high speed.


Rank 3000 in 4v4 just gave you some advice, Katitof. That's what they called pwned :)
27 Feb 2015, 21:43 PM
#288
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 21:23 PMNeo


Rank 3000 in 4v4 just gave you some advice, Katitof. That's what they called pwned :)

Yea, thats pretty normal here.
Remember Jaigen lecturing Cruzz on balance(and that wasn't a single incident)?
Or Joe Dove arguing L2P issues against Luvnest?
Its just another one to throw in the bucket.
27 Feb 2015, 21:49 PM
#289
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 20:43 PMBurts




Oh please. I have taken down many tigers with t-34/76s and zis-3. And i have taken down many IS-2s with just PIVS. Learn to micro, and use teller mines. They do help.


Not to mention the PIV is heaps better againts infantry than the t-34/76, you should be able to bleed him quite a bit by killing his infantry.

Eh, dude. Lets keep it at least a tad serious. If you lose an IS-2 to PIVs, (or a Tiger to 34/76s) you are doing something excessively wrong/mismicroed etc.. Just because every once in a blue moon with the help of a mine and the RNG gods you might actually kill a heavy with the vanilla mediums does not mean they represent a sound teching choice in either scenario. PIV with the assorted tech costs is a lousy choice against any Soviet call-in play, full stop. Other way around (meaning T34/76 vs Tiger), just the same.
27 Feb 2015, 22:00 PM
#290
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8


Eh, dude. Lets keep it at least a tad serious. If you lose an IS-2 to PIVs, (or a Tiger to 34/76s) you are doing something excessively wrong/mismicroed etc.. Just because every once in a blue moon with the help of a mine and the RNG gods you might actually kill a heavy with the vanilla mediums does not mean they represent a sound teching choice in either scenario. PIV with the assorted tech costs is a lousy choice against any Soviet call-in play, full stop. Other way around (meaning T34/76 vs Tiger), just the same.

That is because heavies doesn't really have any disadvantage. They are plain upgrade over mediums, completely invalidating them the moment they show up.

Bigger cost, lower speed and turret traverse, increased CP cost allowing stock mediums bigger opportunity window and possibility to get some stars and punish stalling for heavy, exploitable vulnerability to something that isn't 70 range dedicated TD- heavies need at least one of these to have actual negative result on the calling player instead of spraying him with benefits.
27 Feb 2015, 22:02 PM
#291
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225

Well sure. This has been the case since ages, (and also goes for advanced mediums, ie. E-8s, 85s) which is why I cringe/must question the seriousness of players who advise others to build PIVs...
27 Feb 2015, 22:08 PM
#292
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Another good reason for it to replace 76 in T3. So when can I expect your supporting posts at my thread about making that change?


Why are you so bloody against making the 76 better? Worried about realism or something?

Oh please. I have taken down many tigers with t-34/76s and zis-3. And i have taken down many IS-2s with just PIVS. Learn to micro, and use teller mines. They do help.


Not to mention the PIV is heaps better againts infantry than the t-34/76, you should be able to bleed him quite a bit by killing his infantry.


Every stat I can find only points to the t-34/76 being slightly worse than the PIV in anti infantry, and that's just because the T34 has a worse ROF.

PIV's can technically kill a IS2, the same way a StuG could, but they are so unopitmal for it why would you ever make them to do that?

Rank 3000 in 4v4 just gave you some advice, Katitof. That's what they called pwned :)


I didn't but the streamers I watch and hang out with did. And I haven't played random 4's in months lol.

Yea, thats pretty normal here.
Remember Jaigen lecturing Cruzz on balance(and that wasn't a single incident)?
Or Joe Dove arguing L2P issues against Luvnest?
Its just another one to throw in the bucket.


Iv never argued with either of those people, and I am not Jaigen or Joe Dove. Please take your false equivalencies elsewhere.
27 Feb 2015, 22:09 PM
#293
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 22:00 PMKatitof

That is because heavies doesn't really have any disadvantage. They are plain upgrade over mediums, completely invalidating them the moment they show up.

Bigger cost, lower speed and turret traverse, increased CP cost allowing stock mediums bigger opportunity window and possibility to get some stars and punish stalling for heavy, exploitable vulnerability to something that isn't 70 range dedicated TD- heavies need at least one of these to have actual negative result on the calling player instead of spraying him with benefits.


If you have good micro, massed mediums is infinitely better than 1 or 2 heavy tanks.
27 Feb 2015, 22:37 PM
#294
avatar of FaustCostBulletin

Posts: 521



Why are you so bloody against making the 76 better? Worried about realism or something?


I am bloody against making the 76 better because it makes no sense 85 is doctrinal and more accessible. And just because it's doctrinal, you guys support that but it just lets the Soviet player be lame and skip T3 AND T4 and get 85 cheaper.

Doctrines should not give straight upgrades.

As Katitof said, heavies are straight upgrades. Do what? Nerf them so they are no longer direct upgrades.

85 is a straight upgrade and it is actually functionally identical to the Panzer IV and balanced with it while not being terrible like 76. Do what? Replace it!

76 has no reason to be a stock unit, just like the snubnose Panzer IV. They repurposed that model as a command tank. This should be the same.

27 Feb 2015, 23:20 PM
#295
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2


T34...
It's a better crusher than the PIV because it has higher speed, acceleration and basic turn speed. It's good at killing infantry because it has a good ROF, nice splash, and can take a hit or two before having to retreat. I'm not grasping at straws, it's a good generalist tank that just doesn't have late game viability.


Just so we kill the myth of the T34 having a GOOD AI capability.
T34 MGs are way worst than PIV and had worst AI capabilities on its main gun. Saving grace is fighting 4models against OH but not so against OKW.

Tiger: 5.25
PIV: 5.75
KV1: 5.75
Wolverine: 5.85
OKW PIV: 6
M4A3: 6.05
KT: 6.25
T3485: 6.4
OH PV: 6.5
E8: 6.55
IS2: 6.65
T3476: 6.75
Jackson: 7.25
OKW PV: 7.5

Yep, good ROF.

Nevertheless, it's a GOOD OPTION IF you are ahead on the match or even, and your opponent is not gonna pull any medium. This lets you gain control of the map and have enough resources to pull your call ins by the time your opponent can do the same.
27 Feb 2015, 23:20 PM
#296
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225

Ostheer, no comment. I just cheesed the living shiat out of Banana on crossing, the full programme, snipers, mines, demos everywhere into call-ins. He pulled off a few nice G43 flanks that would have killed half a dozen OH snipers but could not quite kill mine (and my snipermicro has become pretty rusty); he had dominant mapcontrol until almost the lategame and fastteched T3, but I kept bleeding him with the snipers and when my IS-2 came out his 2 PIVs were irrelevant and it was gg. He sure was royally pissed and I felt bad for him, but I am done playing nice, because its virtually never reciprocitated.

Moral of the story, Relic needs to get its shit together and fix OH teching....
27 Feb 2015, 23:31 PM
#297
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

before they buffed the IV's AoE the 34/76 was the better AI vehicle; this is no longer true however. the 34/76 is flatout worse than the IV.
27 Feb 2015, 23:57 PM
#298
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Just so we kill the myth of the T34 having a GOOD AI capability.
T34 MGs are way worst than PIV and had worst AI capabilities on its main gun. Saving grace is fighting 4models against OH but not so against OKW.

Tiger: 5.25
PIV: 5.75
KV1: 5.75
Wolverine: 5.85
OKW PIV: 6
M4A3: 6.05
KT: 6.25
T3485: 6.4
OH PV: 6.5
E8: 6.55
IS2: 6.65
T3476: 6.75
Jackson: 7.25
OKW PV: 7.5

Yep, good ROF.

Nevertheless, it's a GOOD OPTION IF you are ahead on the match or even, and your opponent is not gonna pull any medium. This lets you gain control of the map and have enough resources to pull your call ins by the time your opponent can do the same.


I was only comparing the guns on the 76 and PIV, why are you comparing every single turreted tank in the game?

The 76 has a worse ROF, but as far as killing infantry goes both guns are the same. I didn't take into account the hull MG's because getting them to hit what you want to accurately is a pain in the dick.
28 Feb 2015, 00:18 AM
#299
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8


The 76 has a worse ROF, but as far as killing infantry goes both guns are the same. I didn't take into account the hull MG's because getting them to hit what you want to accurately is a pain in the dick.

No, they are not, P4s gun is much more accurate and faster, you have that in the stats and you still try to argue it, hilarious.
28 Feb 2015, 00:39 AM
#300
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Feb 2015, 00:18 AMKatitof

No, they are not, P4s gun is much more accurate and faster, you have that in the stats and you still try to argue it, hilarious.


It's 1.0 faster, that's it. And the accuracy stats are literally the same.
PAGES (19)down
0 user is browsing this thread:

Livestreams

United States 28
Russian Federation 8
unknown 4

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

866 users are online: 866 guests
1 post in the last 24h
9 posts in the last week
27 posts in the last month
Registered members: 50009
Welcome our newest member, qq801com
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM