okwunits

The JgPzIV has the worst turning speed and agility of any TD in the game.

I love this TD. Try this beast next time and turn on "Caution movement" - invisible Su-85

How about you address my arguments? Time the sound of the stuka firing to the impact rockets and you will find it's more than enough to get out of any buildings/move any infantry unless your siting in a extremely tight corridor. The thing has already been nerfed, I don't see the point of nerfing it further when the only people it punishes are those who blob their units.

And as I said before it doesn't vet up very fast at all, mostly due to the fact it's normally only hitting low cost infantry despite the fact it's a 100 fuel unit. If anything it should have price reduction (which it costing more MP of course) since it's not nearly as useful as it used to be.

I did address your arguments, its called screenshots and experience against high level players, something you lack.

Why should it have a cost reduction when its far superior to any other artillery in the game?

I also said that you don't have to fire at where units are to wipe them, only where they move to (against poor players they often wont react in time).

You know how insanely expensive 180 munitions is for OKW right? The unit with out the LMG34 loses to shocks every time despite costing more. If you want to change Obers just make the LMG34 less powerful, or gate it behind a reasonable amount munitions and reduce the price of the squad or just give them a 5th man.

I do. Yet I see 3x Shreks every single game. And the DPS of the LMG32 and the fact it doesnt drop out of DPS until the last model is killed is powerful.

Also it adds a tactical choice and a reason for Convert Fuel to Muni to exist. As it stands its buy Shreks negate fuel penalty...

A perfect example of relying on this is when people used to go with PFuse who have recieved no nerf. But once people caught on to how strong Obers are it fell out of favor.

If 180 turns out to be too much then tone it down. But it shouldnt cost as little as ABs upgrade.

I did address your arguments, its called screenshots and experience against high level players, something you lack.

Why should it have a cost reduction when its far superior to any other artillery in the game?

I also said that you don't have to fire at where units are to wipe them, only where they move to (against poor players they often wont react in time).

It's the best rocket artillery piece in the game stat wise, but it's much easier to avoid than the katyusha due to having a much more distinct firing sound and hitting in a line as apposed to a circle.

Let's rest this Stuka thing, artillery is a necessary tool, and the stuka is a strong one. It requires skill to use and it's area of effect is smaller than the other artillery options (correct me if im wrong).

The actual blast radius on it isn't very big, as the shells won't normally damage anything unless they hit is directly. It makes the stuka perfect for killing buildings, but that's about it. I guess as the other guy said if your playing against awful people it's pretty good, but you could say that about anything.

I love this TD. Try this beast next time and turn on "Caution movement" - invisible Su-85

I just meant it's quite easy to flank, that's all. It also has horrible pathing AI.

Nobody can beat the OpED OPkommand Opwest

I do. Yet I see 3x Shreks every single game. And the DPS of the LMG32 and the fact it doesnt drop out of DPS until the last model is killed is powerful.

Also it adds a tactical choice and a reason for Convert Fuel to Muni to exist. As it stands its buy Shreks negate fuel penalty...

A perfect example of relying on this is when people used to go with PFuse who have recieved no nerf. But once people caught on to how strong Obers are it fell out of favor.

If 180 turns out to be too much then tone it down. But it shouldnt cost as little as ABs upgrade.

Why not just remove it then? I mean if you make it 180 munitions you better make it so it never drops and make the squad a lot more durable since I think you are failing to recognize how much munitions that is for a resource starved faction. Your much more likely to see more people spaming volks rather than putting MP into Obers.

I would be fine with a price reduction for Obers in return for them losing the LMG all together and gaining a squad member.

It's the best rocket artillery piece in the game stat wise, but it's much easier to avoid than the katyusha due to having a much more distinct firing sound and hitting in a line as apposed to a circle.

Katusyha is easy to avoid after the first salvo of rockets. Also please try to understand that good players will not always fire where the units are, but where they will be. Katusyha is also much more fragile and comes later than the Stuka.

The actual blast radius on it isn't very big, as the shells won't normally damage anything unless they hit is directly. It makes the stuka perfect for killing buildings, but that's about it. I guess as the other guy said if your playing against awful people it's pretty good, but you could say that about anything.

The blast radius is plenty big enough and it does damage stuff that it doesn't directly land on. But it still easily wipes stuff it does hit.

FYI the players in that screenshot were ranked #3 in allies 2v2 AT (I was with another random okw player). After we beat them they dropped to #7. Is that your definition of bad?

I just meant it's quite easy to flank, that's all. It also has horrible pathing AI.

SU-85 is pretty easy to flank as well except its far more fragile than the JPIV and still has pathing problems just like the Jackson suffers from horrible pathing.

Also seeing as you don't wish to post your player card, I will do it for you

http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/viewBoard/0/steamid/76561198026003886

Why not just remove it then? I mean if you make it 180 munitions you better make it so it never drops and make the squad a lot more durable since I think you are failing to recognize how much munitions that is for a resource starved faction. Your much more likely to see more people spaming volks rather than putting MP into Obers.

I would be fine with a price reduction for Obers in return for them losing the LMG all together and gaining a squad member.

Thats kind of my point. The strength of OKW is elite units and elite vet. They pay for this with reduced fuel and muni income.

If they dont need an abudance of muni NOR an abundance of fuel to compete then its not much of a punishment. That would be like giving USF a fuel penalty and making all their teching Free. That wouldnt be much of a penalty.

OKW has no reason to really use Muni once Shreks are acquired. And due to Shreks/Obers dont really need armor either. Their manpower is also not penalized.

So you get the current Meta. Kill everything MP blob with only the required 270 Muni and the rest turned into fuel.

OKW would still retain all their power but would have to CHOSE what to get. They couldnt have their cake and eat it too. If they want Shreks FINE get em! No AI though so you better get a Luchs or FlakHT. And if you lose those your in trouble so Panther may not be a no brainer anymore either. Cant have Shreks and Crutch on Obers for AI anymore!

Alternatively no shreks so you better get a Puma/JP4/Rak (that needs a buff) and use the Muni for your AI. So go ahead get that Panther but if you lose it your SCREWED!

OH I WANT BOTH!? Well let me convert fuel to muni!

See I just made OKW interesting and not mindless. This was how it was before the Muni increase when I loved to play OKW.

Katusyha is easy to avoid after the first salvo of rockets. Also please try to understand that good players will not always fire where the units are, but where they will be. Katusyha is also much more fragile and comes later than the Stuka.




The blast radius is plenty big enough and it does damage stuff that it doesn't directly land on. But it still easily wipes stuff it does hit.

FYI the players in that screenshot were ranked #3 in allies 2v2 AT (I was with another random okw player). After we beat them they dropped to #7. Is that your definition of bad?



SU-85 is pretty easy to flank as well except its far more fragile than the JPIV and still has pathing problems just like the Jackson suffers from horrible pathing.

Also seeing as you don't wish to post your player card, I will do it for you

http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/viewBoard/0/steamid/76561198026003886

I don't see what my player card has to do with this, the Stuka isn't bad at all, like I said it's the best Rocket artillery piece in the game at the monument, I don't think it needs to be nerfed tho.

Thats kind of my point. The strength of OKW is elite units and elite vet. They pay for this with reduced fuel and muni income.

If they dont need an abudance of muni NOR an abundance of fuel to compete then its not much of a punishment. That would be like giving USF a fuel penalty and making all their teching Free. That wouldnt be much of a penalty.

OKW has no reason to really use Muni once Shreks are acquired. And due to Shreks/Obers dont really need armor either. Their manpower is also not penalized.

So you get the current Meta. Kill everything MP blob with only the required 270 Muni and the rest turned into fuel.

OKW would still retain all their power but would have to CHOSE what to get. They couldnt have their cake and eat it too. If they want Shreks FINE get em! No AI though so you better get a Luchs or FlakHT. And if you lose those your in trouble so Panther may not be a no brainer anymore either. Cant have Shreks and Crutch on Obers for AI anymore!

Alternatively no shreks so you better get a Puma/JP4/Rak (that needs a buff) and use the Muni for your AI. So go ahead get that Panther but if you lose it your SCREWED!

OH I WANT BOTH!? Well let me convert fuel to muni!

See I just made OKW interesting and not mindless. This was how it was before the Muni increase when I loved to play OKW.

The thing is, this is already the case. Losing tanks/vehicles as OKW is extremely costly and can often easily lose you the game. The problem with OKW is that they have nothing to spend all their MP on, ever wonder why you see nothing but infantry blobs? Because when you have normally priced vehicles but a huge fuel penalty your normally going to save for a game winner, not just something that only slightly tips the balance.

Tell me, if you are playing as soviets and only had 33% fuel income, wouldn't you take every T34 loss hard? Wouldn't you instead of getting mediums and other easily killed fuel requiring units just save for something like an IS2 and spam cons and shocks to stall?

Iv said it before and said it again, reduce the fuel price of OKW vehicles but increase the amount of MP they cost! That way it encourages OKW players to blob less and spend MP on vehicles, which are still critical, but easier to get out onto the field. It will remain hard to replace losses as while the tank is out and doing work your still suffering from the reduced MP income that comes with having a large amount of consumed pop cap.

It's extremely hard to vet up if it's only hitting infantry due to it's high fuel cost...

not really. only vet 1 and vet 2 has fire rate buffs and all the other vet provides range, incendiary, movement speed.

at vet 2, it has x1.43 the normal barrage recharge speed. and vet 2 is not hard at all.

Potential solution to Obers:

- 340mp for squad, 90 munitions for LMG upgrade.
- Reduce DPS of LMG34; increase DPS of K98s further (they already did this once before IIRC?)

Alternatively:
- Obers cannot get XP. They are already super experienced veterans, and have nothing further to learn.


Basically OWK players should be forced to choose a Shrek Blob OR Ober support but not both. If the game goes for a while they can still eventually get both, but it will delay the time it takes to get an operational Volks+Ober doomblob. Every Ober you upgrade to LMG is a Shrek you don't have, and vice versa.

not really. only vet 1 and vet 2 has fire rate buffs and all the other vet provides range, incendiary, movement speed.

at vet 2, it has x1.43 the normal barrage recharge speed. and vet 2 is not hard at all.

It's not an uncommon occurrence to get a very high kill but low vet Stuka, most the time it get it's vet from blowing up the crew weapons it's targeting due to the large amount of damage the bombs do to vehicles. Iv jumped one from vet 2 to 4 after killing 2 Katyushas with it.

Potential solution to Obers:

- 340mp for squad, 90 munitions for LMG upgrade.
- Reduce DPS of LMG34; increase DPS of K98s further (they already did this once before IIRC?)

Alternatively:
- Obers cannot get XP. They are already super experienced veterans, and have nothing further to learn.

This is fine, but removing their ability to get vet is pretty silly.

I'm actually surprised they can vet to begin with; theoretically an ober squad (in lore terms) is supposed to be already fully battle hardened. I sort of expected htem to be Vet 5 out the gate (with similar stats to what they are now).

OKW could in principle be a faction comprised of low quality core units supplemented by elite doctrinal or high-tier units that are powerful, but don't scale beyond their initial quality (because they're already veteran). The 1943-44 Soviet army is kind of designed in this way except for the veterancy stuff I'm talking about; conscripts and generally weaker versions of many Ostheer units (slower firing mortar, less effective AT gun, weaker tanks etc supplemented by elite infantry and heavy callins).

What is the purpose of this topic? Are you gonna argue about every OKW unit with dedicated OKW players who only play team games, enjoy their win streaks, ignoring every fact presented and don't want their favourite, dominant faction to be balanced because they don't care about balance at all.

Not another OKW whine topic....

Hey there this may look like a cry baby cry thread but i just want to pack my thoughts into 1 comment

1.schrecks
Completly shuts down light vehicles like t70 aa-halftrack m20
Does make it very very hard to use medium tanks!!!!
Allso not bad against inf.

2.Ober
Forces you too insta retread inf.(if not vet3) kills weaponteams outright
Only counter if schrecks are on the field is artyspam

3. The most broken unit : walking stuka (in 2v2)
it squadwipes almost everything that it hits with its perfect accuricy
At-guns mgs mortars are just like please kill me signs
Non-doctorinial
Katushya and panzerwerfer are fitting there roll perfectly why not the walking stuka
Deals good damage against tanks if hit good

1. Would be great if volks didn't have shreck, BUT okw had Pak40 or ZiS AT gun. btw you are wrong about t70 or AA truck if your timing is good or you micro them well, and m20 can be game changer, plus it comes so early
2. Would be great if obers didn't exist in the game, BUT volks weren't too weak or okw had a unit which could slightly counter shock troops, paratroopers, or rifles, guards, etc, plus usf's lmgs
3. would be great if stuka's damage was less, BUT it had the same range of Katusha or stuka wasn't this expensive. btw panzerwerfer is not fitting its role perfectly, that's why you rarely see this unit in the game, it is trash atm. the same as sturmtiger for its price, which is why rarely people use it

I don't see what my player card has to do with this, the Stuka isn't bad at all, like I said it's the best Rocket artillery piece in the game at the monument, I don't think it needs to be nerfed tho.

The point is that you do not know a lot about balance OR fail to put it in practice.

Your rank proves it .

Plz stay out of balance thread from now on.

The point is that you do not know a lot about balance OR fail to put it in practice.

Your rank proves it .

Plz stay out of balance thread from now on.

http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197968413717

is that your card? if so try harder next time

not a single 1v1 in a game, which, according to it devs, is focused on 1v1 balance. 1 game as soviet none as ost. so what do you know about balance?


Edit:
to clarify: i do not agree with what alex says. i just dont like your hypocrisy

lol Player card gives you the bragging rights for the balance?