New faction British??

In North Africa the Italians were not the first choice to lead an attack, but rather hold the lines. I don´t know how this could turn out to be an interesting faction in Coh.

To quote Rommel about the Italians:

"The Italian command was, for the most part, not equal to the task of carrying on war in the desert, where the requirement was lightning decision followed by immediate action. The training of the Italian infantryman fell far short of the standard required by modern warfare. … Particularly harmful was the all pervading differentiation between officer and man. While the men had to make shift without field-kitchens, the officers, or many of them, refused adamantly to forgo their several course meals. Many officers, again, considered it unnecessary to put in an appearance during battle and thus set the men an example. All in all, therefore, it was small wonder that the Italian soldier, who incidentally was extraordinarily modest in his needs, developed a feeling of inferiority which accounted for his occasional failure and moments of crisis. There was no foreseeable hope of a change for the better in any of these matters, although many of the bigger men among the Italian officers were making sincere efforts in that direction."

If your wondering why we can't have the Japs in COH2 this is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuUR95-o_fw#t=26 they lost to the Soviet Union in 39.

If your wondering why we can't have the Japs in COH2 this is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuUR95-o_fw#t=26 they lost to the Soviet Union in 39.

AFAIK, the doctrine of Bushido resulted bcs of this defeat.

If your wondering why we can't have the Japs in COH2 this is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuUR95-o_fw#t=26 they lost to the Soviet Union in 39.

Your citing a historical document to say why we shouldn't have them in-game, but you just don't get it do you? IT DOESN"T MATTER! It doesn't matter how well they actually did. If it did Germans would lose every single battle after eventually getting outnumbered by shermans and T-34s. The only thing that matters is whether or not they have enough units to fill a faction and enough interest that people will buy it. That is all.

My bet is on brits and germans, italians in Africa (1943)...Nigo mentioned something about el-alamein skins in another thread.

Your citing a historical document to say why we shouldn't have them in-game, but you just don't get it do you? IT DOESN"T MATTER! It doesn't matter how well they actually did. If it did Germans would lose every single battle after eventually getting outnumbered by shermans and T-34s. The only thing that matters is whether or not they have enough units to fill a faction and enough interest that people will buy it. That is all.

But German tanks and Soviet tanks can actually go head to head with out the result being a forgone conclusion. Italian and Japanese tanks are utter garbage.



This is japan's heaviest mass produced tank which is going to have a hell of a time fighting this:

But German tanks and Soviet tanks can actually go head to head with out the result being a forgone conclusion. Italian and Japanese tanks are utter garbage.



This is japan's heaviest mass produced tank which is going to have a hell of a time fighting this:

USF have nothing similar to IS-2, ISU-152 or Kingtiger, only M26 Pershing but it seems that won't be added in CoH2.
And they are in CoH2

USF have nothing similar to IS-2, ISU-152 or Kingtiger, only M26 Pershing but it seems that won't be added in CoH2.
And they are in CoH2

Because USF has a plethora of excellent medium tanks, the Japanese have barely anything at all. It would be more like if the USF had only the early war sherman and nothing else.

Because USF has a plethora of excellent medium tanks, the Japanese have barely anything at all. It would be more like if the USF had only the early war sherman and nothing else.

You can use other game mechanichs than comparing units vs units for making a new faction reliable, like in sc2. Protoss has strong units like heavy tanks and u cant afford loosing them, and zerg relys on weak units which you can mass easily and outnumber your opponent, because thats the zerg race way to play. Why they cant make japs a mass faction o something like that.

You seem unwilling - or unable -to differentiate between realism and authenticity. (and also,you are unhistorical). Normally , I am unwilling to engage like this,frankly, bcs if I debate, I do not want my opponent to argue that I hide behind my badge,, or whatever nonsense. But, there is so much wrong here, again,that I feel I have to take off my staff hat and help you. Therefore, if you wish to resist stubbornly but politely, sobeit. Other staff can moderate us, for as long as I can be bothered to stay in the discussion.

I know the difference between realism and authenticity, so there's no need for a lecture there. As for your claim that i'm unhistorical, I demand that you retract that statement. Everything I've said in this thread is backed up by historians, educated civil servants(Teachers) and even officers and soldiers themselves who fought in WW2. My grandfather served in WW2 and fought against the Italians, and he said they were cowards who were afraid of a good fight.

Italy did not initially have the worst military in WWII in the way you describe: quite arguably, that description might have fallen on the French or the British in May 1940.

Wrong, they did have the worst military. Look up the "Italian invasion of France" on wikipedia or click this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_invasion_of_France

The Italians couldn't decisively defeat the French Army despite outnumbering them severely(300 thousand Italians vs 50 thousand French troops of the Republic) AND Germany attacking France at the same time. This was in 1940(Early in the war) and everything Italy had was inferior to everyone else's equipment; both Germany and France had much better equipment than Italy.

I don't mean in just equipment

See above. Italy did have equipment that was greatly inferior to their enemies and allies. Most of their artillery were pieces that were secured during 1918 during their war with Hungary. I'm sorry but I refuse to believe the Italians had good equipment and were well supplied when they relied on WW1 artillery.

but outdated thinking, when facing the re-energised Wehrmacht. The French and the British had large armies, but their Commanders' mindset was apparently stuck in WWI (in no small means, through the drastic demobilisation after WW1)

Considering that outdated thinking, tactics and etc stopped the 300 thousand strong Italian Army invasion, what does that say about the Italians? They were stuck in the Medieval ages regarding tactics.

Italy had made its own gains in East Africa - and it took people like Slim and Wingate to dislodge them -and they were effective operators,as the history of the British 14th army confirms.

Source? Italy's gains in Africa were solely because of German equipment, men and officers. Of course you don't mention that the Italian command in Africa crumbled almost as soon as it began.

Oh please: this is what I mean by being unhistorical.

At a simplistic level, watch for the nth time "the Bridge over the River Kwai" - it gives you a taste - only a taste- of how the Allied armies had to reinvent themselves, by jungle training. Or you might watch "Merrills Marauders" - again only a taste, of how an US task force operated in the Burmese jungle.

But however you see it from Western eyes, there is little doubt (in my mind) that the Japanese Imperial Army was a formidable foe for the Allies whom they faced: the Japanese were committed 100% (Bushido) - and you ignored their soldiers at your peril. e.g.the Phillippines; Singapore; Borneo; Indonesia; The French East Indies (Vietnam); Burma; Guadacanal; New Guinea; the Solomon islands; Saipan; Tarawa; Iwo Jima; Okinawa...

Again, taken out of context. I never said Japan had a bad Army, quite the contrary actually. I said that Japan was recognised mainly because of their astounding naval and air force, along with their artillery arm; never before has an Asian country stepped into the World ring like Japan did, and they defeated several Western nations even before WW2. People were more impressed that an Asian country had such a formidable(And one of the best) Navy, and not their Army.

Much like the British who were recognised for having the best Navy in the World, but that doesn't mean their Army was poor; it just means that their naval power was much greater than their land force power.

The Italian Army Fought with Courage and Skill

Because USF has a plethora of excellent medium tanks, the Japanese have barely anything at all. It would be more like if the USF had only the early war sherman and nothing else.

Type 3 Chi-Nu: were produced, according to various estimates, from 60 to 166 tanks - T-34, M4 analogue

Type 4 Chi-To: were produced, according to various sources, from 2 to 5 tanks - Armor T-34, M4. gun -Panther

Type 5 Chi-Ri: was produced 1 tank - and the game he will be one (like Tiger Ace),tank destroy?
Buy new.

I do not see any problems with the tanks. All of them can be added to the game

I know the difference between realism and authenticity, so there's no need for a lecture there. As for your claim that i'm unhistorical, I demand that you retract that statement. Everything I've said in this thread is backed up by historians, educated civil servants(Teachers) and even officers and soldiers themselves who fought in WW2. My grandfather served in WW2 and fought against the Italians, and he said they were cowards who were afraid of a good fight.



Wrong, they did have the worst military. Look up the "Italian invasion of France" on wikipedia or click this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_invasion_of_France

The Italians couldn't decisively defeat the French Army despite outnumbering them severely(300 thousand Italians vs 50 thousand French troops of the Republic) AND Germany attacking France at the same time. This was in 1940(Early in the war) and everything Italy had was inferior to everyone else's equipment; both Germany and France had much better equipment than Italy.


See above. Italy did have equipment that was greatly inferior to their enemies and allies. Most of their artillery were pieces that were secured during 1918 during their war with Hungary. I'm sorry but I refuse to believe the Italians had good equipment and were well supplied when they relied on WW1 artillery.



Considering that outdated thinking, tactics and etc stopped the 300 thousand strong Italian Army invasion, what does that say about the Italians? They were stuck in the Medieval ages regarding tactics.


Source? Italy's gains in Africa were solely because of German equipment, men and officers. Of course you don't mention that the Italian command in Africa crumbled almost as soon as it began.





Again, taken out of context. I never said Japan had a bad Army, quite the contrary actually. I said that Japan was recognised mainly because of their astounding naval and air force, along with their artillery arm; never before has an Asian country stepped into the World ring like Japan did, and they defeated several Western nations even before WW2. People were more impressed that an Asian country had such a formidable(And one of the best) Navy, and not their Army.

Much like the British who were recognised for having the best Navy in the World, but that doesn't mean their Army was poor; it just means that their naval power was much greater than their land force power.

I don't know what people told you this about Italy but, just to know, where did your grandpa fight?
You forget that Italians and French soldiers fought on the alps, do you know what are they?
And French soldiers were 170.000 men. AND GERMANY ATTACKED A MONTH BEFORE WITH ALMOST 3 MILLION MEN and they had the good terrain to use tank tactics, do you think they would have fought in the same way if they had to invade France from the alps?
I'm very glad that some people still believe in myths like German ubermenschen, German all nazis, evil soviet rapists, Italian cowards, Japanese samurai-ninja-superfighters and now we can add Canadian hero soldiers, anyone would like to continue finding something new?

PS: What do you mean with Italian Command in Africa? Firstly, there was Libya and East Africa. Secondly Rommel was under Italian High Command control (in Rome), who gave orders to Rommel? Guess who? Hitler? Kesselring? Mickey Mouse? Chuck Norris?
Seriously I think that your lessons on the Italian army in ww2 were done by mickey mouse.
Seriously everything was outdated to 1918 and every gun was Austrian ww1 guns? Read something about Italian artillery in ww2.

Type 3 Chi-Nu: were produced, according to various estimates, from 60 to 166 tanks - T-34, M4 analogue

Type 4 Chi-To: were produced, according to various sources, from 2 to 5 tanks - Armor T-34, M4. gun -Panther

Type 5 Chi-Ri: was produced 1 tank - and the game he will be one (like Tiger Ace),tank destroy?
Buy new.

I do not see any problems with the tanks. All of them can be added to the game

You see this is an argument against them being included right?

But German tanks and Soviet tanks can actually go head to head with out the result being a forgone conclusion. Italian and Japanese tanks are utter garbage.



This is japan's heaviest mass produced tank which is going to have a hell of a time fighting this:

If your only strategy for taking out a heavy tank is a bigger heavier tank, then you aren't very good at this game. AT guns, vehicle snares, air support, and heavy defensive emplacements would all play a big role in a japanese faction.

If your only strategy for taking out a heavy tank is a bigger heavier tank, then you aren't very good at this game. AT guns, vehicle snares, air support, and heavy defensive emplacements would all play a big role in a japanese faction.

The problem is that of the extremely few mediums they had none could stand up to their allied equivalents. It would be interesting to see a faction balanced only around support/infantry and emplacements, but it would be so easy to counter that I just don't think it would work. B4 anyone?

The problem is that of the extremely few mediums they had none could stand up to their allied equivalents. It would be interesting to see a faction balanced only around support/infantry and emplacements, but it would be so easy to counter that I just don't think it would work. B4 anyone?

You keep repeating the same thing. It doesn't matter what would happen in real life. In game players can flank, use anti-tank infantry, and have a variety of ways to make up for have weaker tanks and Chi-nus and ho-ris can take on meduim armor just fine from the front.

Your argument only makes sense in a vacuum where there are only tanks and you have to attack from the front. The real game doesn't play like that. Not to mention we will probably several changes to current armor before we ever see a japanese faction.

You keep repeating the same thing. It doesn't matter what would happen in real life. In game players can flank, use anti-tank infantry, and have a variety of ways to make up for have weaker tanks. Chi-nu and ho-ri can take on meduim armor just fine.

Your argument only makes sense in a vacuum where there are only tanks and you have to attack from the front. The real game doesn't play like that.

No, but a faction based around almost only infantry is pretty silly when the allies in this game excel at killing infantry due to having excellent indirect fire/blob killers. Not to mention the fact that the Chi-nu couldn't even take on a T34/76 or a Sherman let alone anything bigger.

The Japanese relied extremely heavily on artillery and mines, as well as lots of air support and we know how much everyone loves skill planes.

No, but a faction based around almost only infantry is pretty silly when the allies in this game excel at killing infantry due to having excellent indirect fire/blob killers. Not to mention the fact that the Chi-nu couldn't even take on a T34/76 or a Sherman let alone anything bigger.

The Japanese relied extremely heavily on artillery and mines, as well as lots of air support and we know how much everyone loves skill planes.

OKW is also a heavily infantry based faction as well most the time. Trust me it isn't as easy to kill infantry as allies as you think. And their tanks might not be tigers, but they would be cheap and plentiful if they aren't strong. Try to ignore them and you would get overrun just as you would against any allied player using shermans and t34s

OKW is also a heavily infantry based faction as well most the time. Trust me it isn't as easy to kill infantry as allies as you think. And their tanks might not be tigers, but they would be cheap and plentiful if they aren't strong. Try to ignore them and you would get overrun just as you would against any allied player using shermans and t34s

Japanese tanks were neither cheap nor plentiful, Japan was in the same dire situation as Germany was in late 44 due to fuel shortages. It's not that their tanks aren't tigers, it's that they are worse than literally every single medium tank currently in the game except the Command Panzer IV.

And I think almost every one can agree OKW isn't a good example of smart faction design.